In today’s paper:
My take on this is that there is actually no new Pfizer shortage; what we are seeing is an increasing % of anti-vaccers among the younger people, many of whom can’t see the point, especially as there are few people left to infect who might actually get seriously ill. Well, this is disregarding the mutation issue, and the substantial numbers of older people who can get ill but who have managed to avoid the vaccine for reasons already well discussed…
The govt can’t admit to something like this, however, because it would do even more to discourage people from getting vacced.
This is the impact of the UK’s test and quarantine requirement:
Palma de Majorca Airport confirmed to the BBC that during May, 397,931 tourists arrived from Germany on 3,363 flights. In contrast 5,813 UK tourists arrived on 333 flights from UK airports.
I’m afraid that what we are seeing in some European countries is the same thing as last year. It is summer, the numbers drop to insignificance. The difference is that there is a large part of the population which is vaccined. However, this only solves the problem for them.
Looking at polls and a growing anti vaxxer share in the population, particularly when it comes to the covid vaccine, a realistic target will now be 50% or maximum 60% who will get vaccined. That is all very nice, but it is insufficient to stop the pandemic, 80% or more would be required. So I do not hold my breath. It looks very much as if we will be back to the 4th wave and new outbreaks in fall and get another lockdown winter. And unless people are strongly encouraged to vaccinate, this will go on like this forever.
Personally I would fire anyone who refuses to get vaccinated, not only because they are a danger to the public but their egoism also shows something I would not want on my staff. And for laws, clearly a mandate for vaccination would be desirable but unfortunately it is not feasible here. Therefore I would deny them entry to public places, transport and travel to the point where they can go shop for food but nothing else.
I don’t see an end to this. Not for years, possibly decades, due to the ignorance and egoism of people. It will be the new normal, only people are in denial about it.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
And for laws, clearly a mandate for vaccination would be desirable but unfortunately it is not feasible here.
On the contrary, it’s fortunate. We don’t have a system like they do in China and we don’t want to either.
Airborne_Again wrote:
On the contrary, it’s fortunate. We don’t have a system like they do in China and we don’t want to either.
Well, it appears to me that “we” is not really covering it. No I don’t want a system like China but yes, I much prefer a system which in a case like Covid can and will react in order to stop it, rather than spending years to fix it and fail doing that. And some Asian places have definitly shown they are up to it while we are not.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
Well, it appears to me that “we” is not really covering it. No I don’t want a system like China but yes, I much prefer a system which in a case like Covid can and will react in order to stop it, rather than spending years to fix it and fail doing that. And some Asian places have definitly shown they are up to it while we are not.
I think I’ve already mentioned this in this very long thread and if I did, let me repeat it. When Yugoslavia faced smallpox epidemic in 1972, it was stopped by mandatory vaccination of 18 million people (out of 21 million total population) in course of 3 months, effectively preventing it to become European pandemic. Approximately 100.000 people was quarantined, 175 contracted the disease and 35 died. Was this response overreaction? I don’t know but I know the fact that Covid-19 until now caused over 38.000 deaths in countries of ex-Yugoslavia.
Yes indeed.
[ Un ]fortunately today we have the “civil liberties issues” 
Something like 25% of care home staff are refusing, and are threatening to walk out if they are forced to get vaccinated. The care home business pays crap wages and the job is crap too (literally) so the care home owners are worried about this, but probably the walkout threat is mostly empty. The staff are mostly from a particular demographic which is susceptible to anti-vacc influence.
Next will be mandatory NHS staff vaccination… being “looked at” 
to see how much opposition there is. At one point there was a 50% chance of catching CV19 during a hospital visit, so one would think this is a no-brainer!
The last bit I posted above shows that the UK test + quarantine regime is reducing air travel by very close to 98%. They don’t need to pass a law banning it… and the damage to the economy is compensated for by the injection of money paid to the crooks, shysters, wide boys, and criminals who run the State-sponsored test marketing scene. A family of four will spend approx £1400 on tests, assuming the 5 day quarantine option.
I would put money on the UK lockdown extension being based on dodgy stats.
Emir wrote:
I think I’ve already mentioned this in this very long thread and if I did, let me repeat it. When Yugoslavia faced smallpox epidemic in 1972, it was stopped by mandatory vaccination of 18 million people (out of 21 million total population) in course of 3 months, effectively preventing it to become European pandemic. Approximately 100.000 people was quarantined, 175 contracted the disease and 35 died. Was this response overreaction? I don’t know but I know the fact that Covid-19 until now caused over 38.000 deaths in countries of ex-Yugoslavia.
You cannot compare the two.
Smallpox has an infection fatality rate so high that it simply cannot be allowed to spread unchecked – it would literally decimate (at least) the populations it spread through. I don’t think even the most ardent libertarian would argue for an everyone-take-their-chances approach to smallpox.
Covid-19 on the other hand has an infection fatality rate that a significant proportion of the population considers a perfectly acceptable risk.
Emir wrote:
When Yugoslavia faced smallpox epidemic in 1972, it was stopped by mandatory vaccination of 18 million people (out of 21 million total population) in course of 3 months, effectively preventing it to become European pandemic. Approximately 100.000 people was quarantined, 175 contracted the disease and 35 died. Was this response overreaction? I don’t know but I know the fact that Covid-19 until now caused over 38.000 deaths in countries of ex-Yugoslavia.
thanks for bringing it back to memory. I never knew the details but it appears that their swift reaction and the availability of a vaccine helped a lot. Was it an overreaction? No way. The figures speak volumes.
Peter wrote:
Something like 25% of care home staff are refusing, and are threatening to walk out if they are forced to get vaccinated.
That is a poker game. They should call them to it. Most of those people have nowhere to go. Threats… make one example of one home very publicly will shut it up, maybe after a token strike or so….
Graham wrote:
Covid-19 on the other hand has an infection fatality rate that a significant proportion of the population considers a perfectly acceptable risk.
A significant portion, but no way the majority does or rather did in the beginning. And it is not only fatalities, which still are horrendous and it is a very miserable death too. But we don’t yet begin to understand the implications of long covid. I know some people suffering from that. For all practical purpose they are now severely handicaped and probably will stay that way.
Acceptable? No way.
There is one issue that I can see coming down the track, that nobody (at least in the media here) is talking about.
Currently we are still under a “work from home if that’s possible” advice.
But there are laws coming in, to force employers to take into account an employee’s desire to work from home. There is also a lot of talk by lawyers in the media that as employees return to the workplace, that an employer cannot discriminate against unvaccinated employees, and must make sure that the work place is safe for those unvaccinated employees.
I can foresee some choosing not to be vaccinated, as that requires their employers to make the workplace safe for this without discriminating against them, and the most obvious way would be to let them continue working from home. So if you want to force your employer to let you work from home in the future, you might choose not to get vaccinated!
Is this being discussed in other countries? Is it proving a problem in other countries?
dublinpilot wrote:
Is this being discussed in other countries? Is it proving a problem in other countries?
Yes, our free rag (20 Minutes) has asked their readers to send in examples of employers asking them about their vaccination status, making a fuss about “illegal collection of health data”.
