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Corona / Covid-19 Virus - General Discussion (politics go to the Off Topic / Politics thread)

Cobalt wrote:

So there will be people who cannot be vaccinated or where vaccination is ineffective, many of which will catch Covid-19, and some of them will die.

You didn’t write the post I commented on, but it expressly said that “Those who want to be protected are, and those who aren’t protected aren’t.”

My point is not only that it isn’t that simple but that it isn’t true. One of the reasons a high vaccination rate is desirable – for any disease – is to protect those who can not be vaccinated.

We have beaten back Covid to a level where the death rate is just background noise.

Why, then, do we need to discriminate against “those who aren’t protected”?

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

I don’t see how one can define it as ‘discrimination’.

The world comes with risks for all of us. Some risks, for some people, are greater than others and that is unfortunate for them but not a basis on which to govern society.

It’s a question of at what point mandating economic and social hardship for the majority, as well as restrictions on personal freedoms that many argue go way beyond the proper role of government, can be justified by way of offering some perceived level of protection to a minority of the population. Many people, myself included, believe that point has long passed and that all we’re seeing now is governments desperately clinging onto the ability to control every aspect of people’s lives.

Last Edited by Graham at 11 Jun 07:50
EGLM & EGTN

Graham wrote:

Many people, myself included, believe that point has long passed and that all we’re seeing now is governments desperately clinging onto the ability to control every aspect of people’s lives.

Living in Croatia, I’m more concerned of church trying to control every aspect of people’s life.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

Emir wrote:

Living in Croatia, I’m more concerned of church trying to control every aspect of people’s life.

What else does a church (any church) exist for?

;-)

EGLM & EGTN

Airborne_Again wrote:

Why, then, do we need to discriminate against “those who aren’t protected”?

One problem, some are attempting to normalise, emergency restrictions. In many countries these restrictions were applied without the normal debates, processes and timescales where an opportunity was given to think again. Understandable since it was an emergency, but is is still an emergency?

I think there is a large number of people who are more than happy with the “restrictions” which for them aren’t “restrictions”…

Ted
United Kingdom

Ted wrote:

One problem, some are attempting to normalise, emergency restrictions. In many countries these restrictions were applied without the normal debates, processes and timescales where an opportunity was given to think again. Understandable since it was an emergency, but is is still an emergency?

I don’t think it’s understandable at all, it is not the role of government to arbitrarily enact totalitarian laws in reaction to natural health phenomena without due process and time limits, or at all. That aside, here is the hospitalization data for my area of about 3 million people. 81 beds in use for CV-19 versus a hospital capacity of 6416 beds. Eighteen of those are ICU cases. Most remaining local restrictions on behavior will be removed in a few days, but I think the trick will be pushing ‘most’ to ‘100% gone forever’. Incremental slippery slopes are a hard thing to beat.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 11 Jun 15:00

Ted wrote:

I think there is a large number of people who are more than happy with the “restrictions” which for them aren’t “restrictions”…

Exactly. If you don’t go to nightclubs, then who cares whether nightclubs are permitted by law to open or not? In the UK this is the one category of business that has been totally closed since the very start of lockdown 1 right up until now. An association of owners is preparing a legal action in the event that the government delays the planned 21st June re-opening.

If you work from home or in some comfortable environment, and 99% of your leisure time is spent with your family/kids anyway, then what does it really matter if masks, social distancing, limits on indoor gatherings etc. hang around for the foreseeable future? I also think that a lot of people are really very comfortable, in general, living in a society with strict rules governing absolutely everything.

Last night we were doing a bit of planning for my girlfriend’s 40th birthday party in late July. She wondered whether, in case the final restrictions aren’t lifted on schedule, we ought to only sent out 30 invites for now because that is the max allowed outdoor gathering until 21 June. Such ridiculousness was a tipping point for me, and I said that I simply didn’t recognise the government’s right to set a limit on how many people I could have in my garden.

EGLM & EGTN
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I’ve discovered that the NHS phone app does deliver a digital certificate after all. Quite a convoluted process and I suspect some people will never find it

No idea why it has an expiry date. You have to regenerate it every month.

It also states that the certificate is for travel only, and nobody within the UK is allowed to ask you to show it The politics of this is mind-boggling.

I am now out of quarantine after my last trip, using the day 5 early release option (the middle of three £99 tests) but I would not have got back to the UK at all if I used that company… read some reviews here. The funny thing is that on trustpilot.com they have a much higher % of good reviews, so perhaps they are using one of the “bad review dolution” services

On the news today: 50k people a day are admitted to hospital normally, and now just ~30 with CV19, but the govt is still likely to postpone the 21 June re-opening. A raft of academics is arguing for that, but most of them have no stake in the economy…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

While a bit convoluted, it isn’t hard to find – it has been there for about a month now.

The reason most people don’t know is because it isn’t much use so far.

The reason it has an expiry is most likely key rotation – assuming a halfway competent design, the data should be digitally signed with a private key so anyone who has the corresponding public key can validate it (or alternatively, the data could be encrypted in a similar fashion)

Since keys can be compromised, every now and then they get replaced, so any compromised key is withdrawn from service.

So if, for example, there is a new key every day (tied to that date) and you get the private key somehow, you can fake certificates issued that day, but not forever.

I have been unable to find the QR code spec for the vaccine status.

Biggin Hill
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