I think it is all just a smoke screen until they can roll back any travel restrictions
I reckon you must be right. It is quite hard (usually impossible) to find original sources for what is appearing in the media.
And the media is full of BS. This morning somebody on BBC radio said the pre-departure test is pre UK departure. Ahem, no, it isn’t… The govt is actually exerting quite a lot of control over what gets released, so the news hacks are speculating like crazy.
About the only thing which seems likely is that destinations like Greece will want either a PCR within preceeding 72hrs (basically, same as for quite a few months; did this for Italy in Oct 2020) or a vaccine certificate. And the pattern for the cert is probably Croatia which is looking for both vacces and 2 weeks after the 2nd one.
For me the 2nd + 2wks is late May, and I am going to head out right away. Got an invitation to go gliding in Italy with one of their top people 
Peter wrote:
This morning somebody on BBC radio said the pre-departure test is pre UK departure. Ahem, no, it isn’t…
I have not seen anything in the media which conclusively explains whether a ‘pre-departure test’ means before departing the UK or before departing on your return journey.
The former seems completely pointless in preventing importation of the virus, the latter seems totally unworkable.
I’m certainly not getting involved in any foreign travel while all this is going on. As with GA flying, if you crank up the cost/admin burden then eventually you reach a point where people can’t be bothered.
Peter wrote:
For me the 2nd + 2wks is late May, and I am going to head out right away. Got an invitation to go gliding in Italy with one of their top people
I believe most of northern Italy is open for intl travel, but with standard restrictions on the ground …. masks, opening hours, limits on # people in restaurants, etc … so that should be a workable plan. @Peter, what do/will you likely need coming back into the UK? From the govt web site it looks like the mid-June date will have relaxation of a lot of restrictions, if nothing changes until then.
Currently, a 10 day quarantine, or 5 days if you do two PCR tests.
This is in one of today’s rags:
I hope Greece, Italy and Croatia are on the Green list, which means… nobody knows what exactly it means Not relevant for another month or so anyway.
I would do the return quarantine if I had a decent trip beforehand.
The situation is changing quite fast. Presumably the mainland is getting vaccinated, as well as their lockdowns working
More news today:
The usual stuff… all sort of things holding it up. 2x as many UK people have been fully vacced than on the mainland, but Brussels is demanding reciprocity on any travel arrangements, which will slow things down relative to how fast e.g. Greece would like to move. Not much will happen in May. Well, the campsite on the Scilly Isles will open on 17th May, hey ho
Peter wrote:
The situation is changing quite fast. Presumably the mainland is getting vaccinated, as well as their lockdowns working
Sounds to me Europe may be a place to visit in 2022, when enough people there have become vaccinated that some semblance of sanity returns. It’s the only thing that’s going to promote the current nonsense and then the proposed vaccine passport nonsense being dismantled in sequence, as fear subsides and is no longer supporting insanity. The EU scheme is unworkable regardless except inside it’s own borders, where authoritarian government has deep roots and acceptance.
I’m happy that in the US an increasing number of states have now passed laws to make vaccine passports and the associated bureaucratic overreach and societal discrimination explicitly illegal.
The only issue I’d have with going to Europe now is the insane politics and policies, and the image currently being presented is going to keep international tourism away. Obviously the health issues themselves are non-issues once you’re vaccinated, and that is the key thing for anybody: If people choose not to responsibly manage their own risk, as they have every right to do, they’re on their own and that’s fine too – no ridiculous laws are warranted to protect you from your own decision and none are needed for those who did act to protect themselves. If that scenario for some reason is found to be be measurably untrue, then address it if it does, but that possibility has little precedent in human experience.
It’s sad to see Europe again following their instinct towards authoritarianism versus effective solutions… but that’s what European government does and has always done. The CV-19 border control and vaccination status issue is driven by unhealthy political interests.
Cobalt wrote:
- restricting LEAVERS makes no sense. Of course, the ‘receiving’ country might have entry restrictions
It is not the country of departure which restricts them, it is the airline who is supposed to require tests to let the people board. The idea being, that they don’t want infected people on a flight bound for their country of destination.
Cobalt wrote:
- restricting RETURNERS and GUESTS makes no sense. The population as a whole is sufficiently protected. With effective lethality well below 0.1%, you could use the same argument for mandatory flu testing and travel restrictions.
I’d call that “WILL” be protected once the vaccinations are at a quote of maybe 70-80%
There is a lot open to refinement at the moment. The current policy is to let nobody in who is positive, particularly from places which have mutations yet unknown how they react to the current vaccines. So the deadlock is at the departure point, wherever it may be. Currently most countries require a negative test for entry and at the same time do not wish to quarantine a whole planeload of incoming pax, so they require the tests prior departure.
Peter wrote:
Fortunately there are trivial ways to avoid this risk if flying by GA. The feasibility depends on how exactly the law is written. If entering the UK without that test is a £1k or £10k fine, that’s a problem. But if the fine is on the airline, that’s ok.
The requirements by GA are the same Peter. No difference, only then you are the air carrier responsible not to let anyone board without a test. Obviously that is b.s. and we know it, but once you arrive on the arrival port without tests, things may turn expensive.
E.g. we are currently not allowed to go train abroad, even if we don’t leave the airplane and even if both of us are considered crew. To return to Switzerland, we need a negative test not older than 72 hours.
And no, it is not “fine” if the airline is fined either, because that will exactly do the above mentioned thing, which some airlines are too cavalier about right now: Strict controls before boarding the airplane.
What will be the real dealbreaker is if this test regime is being upheld also for vaccinated people. According to some opinions here it will be, others say it won’t. As the law is written now, vaccinated people need tests as well. This would imho be one of two show stoppers for tourism this summer, the other being kids who in any case will require tests.
Peter wrote:
And the media is full of BS. This morning somebody on BBC radio said the pre-departure test is pre UK departure.
Pre-departure test pre UK departure may be required if the country of destination requires tests of UK citizens, so prior bording a negative test must be shown, amongst other things to avoid having to quarantine a planeload of tourists if ONE of them has no test upon arrival and proves positive.
once you arrive on the arrival port without tests, things may turn expensive.
I meant the pre-return-flight test. That is the “entrapment scenario”. Nobody with a brain is going to take a risk on that. But with GA there are obvious ways to avoid that (posted earlier).
Croatia and Greece currently don’t require tests to enter the country, if you are fully vacced.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
It is not the country of departure which restricts them, it is the airline who is supposed to require tests to let the people board. The idea being, that they don’t want infected people on a flight bound for their country of destination.
There are other means of transport, for example some people fly their own aircraft ;-)
But currently, the UK is proposing to ban people from leaving unless they have a test or maybe not. Looks like I misunderstood the proposed rules.
I am not aware of a proposal to ban people departing the UK – other than the current one with the £5k fine if “going on a holiday”, but that fine is avoided if you visit an estate agent while abroad
So I could fly abroad now, to any country which will accept me (with a PCR test or the vacc certificate), and sit out the 5/10 day quarantine when I come back home. I would just have to visit an estate agent while abroad, and that visit would need to be prearranged before I leave the UK.
I reckon that other “reported requirement” for a test before the return flight to the UK (which currently does not exist) will be removed, because it is totally nuts.
We should organise a meet-up in June somewhere. Italy or Croatia? In Italy, I will be going to Aosta. The two main Croatian islands are a lot nicer though.
