Is there also data from reactions to vaccination?
A fairly common AZ reaction (~40%) seems to be a shivering, commencing around t plus 5hrs and lasting a few hrs. No actual rise in body temp measured in the one case I know of directly, however. Never heard of 40C being reported or rumoured, but a young person will probably have a stronger reaction (more active immune system). Very rare for an 18 year old to be vaccinated right now – what was the reason? So you get a crap night’s sleep, feel knackered the next day, and take a day off work. So some hospitals on the mainland have stopped giving AZ to their staff because they don’t want too many having a day off at the same time 
with Biontec the second shot create more significant reactions while for AZ it is the first one…
There are various rumours like that going around; some could be true. Also the Biontech is more likely to give you a sore arm, whereas AZ rarely leaves even a mark.
The yellow card (side effect) reports here in the UK are running at low levels – a few %. There is clearly no significant problem with either vaccine. The Pfizer one has a warning to not give it to people with certain allergies, due to severe reactions being possible.
Peter wrote:
Very rare for an 18 year old to be vaccinated right now – what was the reason?
Working as paramedic – and fully agree: For her it was no more than a free day plus some hours of “Netflix and Advil”. Nothing to complain about compared to the benefits (and she will never show up in official statistics on reactions)
I had no reaction other than a sore arm for a few days, not sure it was more than what one gets after a needle being stuck into one’s arm. My wife was quite tired for a couple of days, nothing worse.
Given the difference in reaction, I was joking that I probably am in the control group and was given the placebo…
@Buckerfan wrote “All the fuss in Germany and France about people refusing the AZ vaccine is crazy.”
I have not heard anyone here refusing the AZ vaccine, we are not getting any supplies to refuse. In fact France has just approved it for over 65’s. So it would be good if people would stop making statements that people in France are refusing the AZ vaccine. That IMO is fake news.
Malibuflyer wrote:
Ok – so why do we even care about aviation? This 2bn you claim that it takes to irradiate global hunger (btw. not even 3 USD for each of the 854mn. that according to your statement are suffering from malnutrition) happens to be almost exactly the amount of the global annual spending for AVGAS.Therefore in the logic of your rant: How about stop killing innocent people in Africa by burning avgas and instead of that giving them food?
Spending AVGAS is not done with saving people’s lives advertised as its goal (as most other human activities). Lockdowns and other COVID-related restrictions are. And it’s quite likely they effectively kill more people than they save.
Valentin wrote:
And it’s quite likely they effectively kill more people than they save
Maths, please? Do you propose that lockdowns kill 50-100 million people over 1-2 years?
Cobalt wrote:
Maths, please? Do you propose that lockdowns kill 50-100 million people over 1-2 years?
50-100 million people? Where do you get such numbers?
1% mortality of Covid, if let run rampant, across 8 billion people, would be 80 million.
Current CFR is around 1-2%, and that is with hospital treatment available for the most severe cases, which significantly reduces the death rate.
The statement “more people die from lockdowns preventing Covid than from Covid itself” may well be true, but is utterly meaningless as it ignores that without lockdowns many more would die.
“More firefighters die fighting forest fires than people die in forest fires” when the fire is approaching a crowded city enclosed by it would be similarly true.
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
Globally in well over a year (14 months) we’ve had 2.6Mio so called ’’covid’’ deaths, of which according to serious studies by various universities 94% would have died either way. (a fifth of those are in the US…) we’ve shut down the worlds economy, robbed people of their freedom, their lives and an entire generation of the best years in their lives.
I can understand your “rant” – forgive me your use of the term.
Whilst I feel your frustration, having read and heard your argument many times in many places, it misses the only fundamental point which we have discussed here before.
It is this. It is easy to become obsessed with the actual raw data, the lives lost, the impact on the economy etc. However this isnt the key. The key is if Covid had been allowed to run its course without the various interventions that have been taken the health services in just about every, possibly every, nation, would have been totally over run. The consequence is people dieing on trolleys, at home and elsewhere with all the utter hurt and devastation this would have caused.
There is the data around that gives a reasonable prediction of what would have happened in the UK without intervention.
Of course we can and will debate the extent of intervention. Some countries imposed little more than some form of social distancing, some far more draconian, but almost every where has done something, and many, that have adopted less intervention are in the tropics where there is evidence the virus probably doesnt spread in the same way as during the winter in the North Western hemispere.
Be in no doubt I think the evidence is irrefutable the NHS would have collapsed without some form of intervention. The consequences would have been devastating.
This was therefore the public health emergency and is the real reason the economies and people’s lifes were shut down. If the politicians had felt the health services could have coped I can assure you they would not have intervened to the extent they did, and even if it could now be proven our health services would not have collapsed (and I believe the contrary) this was not known at the height of the pandemic.
Stats. of how many have died is therefore not the key that unlocks this condrumn. The key is the number of people, the circumstances in which they would have died, and the concomitent impact on our lives that would have been so significant, and even if deemed acceptable by some, is a scenario no political party would have survived anyway.
This should not be lost in the noise because it would be to misunderstand what drove our whole reaction to Covid.
Cobalt wrote:
The statement “more people die from lockdowns preventing Covid than from Covid itself” may well be true, but is utterly meaningless as it ignores that without lockdowns many more would die.
Absolutely! With the same reason one could also demonstrate that we should immediately stop production and distribution of food in Western Europe: So much more people die every year in accidents in agriculture or during road transportation (not even counting the indirect deaths from plant protection, emissions, etc.) compared to almost no deaths from starvation in Western Europe!
