Jujupilote wrote:
Next question is : how the heck would we know how the virus spreads among the vaxed ? Here you would need serious symptoms to get tested.
I get tested every two weeks as part of community surveillance. I’m sure other countries will have similar programmes.
Truth needs to be told: Nobody ever claimed that vaccination is 100% effective. Data says, that on average 80-90% of the vaccinated will be sufficiently protected. Therefore 10-20% of vaccinated are still verry vulnerable by the disease.
This is exactly the reason why it is still required to wear masks, keep distance, etc. It doesn‘t hurt either to make a test once in a while (esp. if you feel bad) even if you are vaccinated (btw.: This is where we get best data from on people getting the disease despite vaccination).
But another thing is also true: If you belong to the unlucky 10-20% unprotected despite vaccination and are at an event/restaurant/etc. where everybody is vaccinated (i.e. 80-90% are actually protected), your risk of acquiring the disease is very significantly reduced – esp. if you and everybody else keeps sticks to the basic rules. Yes, I do feel sorry for my French friends – but in times of a global pandemic it simply is not a clever idea to kiss somebody as a greeting (even shaking hands is not the most clever thing one might do). And we are still living in a global pandemic.
Airborne_Again wrote:
ESTA is a system where you apply before the trip, you have to pay a fee and the application takes some time to process. For all intents and purposes it is a visa system, although it is certainly a much more convenient system than having an interview at a USA embassy and getting a visa stapled into your passport.
The benefit of a B1/B2 visa is you do it once and it’s good for 10 years; depending on how often you travel, it might end up being significantly cheaper then the ETSA fees.
ETSA is, in a way, similar to the way Russian or Turkish visas work – you arrive, whip out a $20 bill, pay the man, get a stamp, proceed. ;-)
tmo wrote:
ETSA is, in a way, similar to the way Russian or Turkish visas work – you arrive, whip out a $20 bill, pay the man, get a stamp, proceed. ;-)
ESTA permissions are valid for two years, though.
Malibuflyer makes a point about pilot licensing (an absurd stretch from my point) however. I believe paramotors don’t require a licence. And in the states I don’t think that ultralights do either. I think people making informed decisions about their own safety is pretty reasonable.
The ban / regulate / top down control of everything crowd just love the idea that someone knows better than them what to do with their life and should be able to dictate so.
With regards to the vaccinated vs unvaccinated transmissibility. Is the argument requiring vaccine passports for restaurants, etc that there is a significantly higher risk to vaccinated people of catching covid from unvaccinated people vs vaccinated people in the restaurant? But if you are vaccinated then you’re very much less likely to have any serious reaction.
I’m not really up to speed with the current regulations and suggestions, but what is done for those who are unable to get vaccines for medical reasons. Are we comfortable making them second class citizens?
but what is done for those who are unable to get vaccines for medical reasons. Are we comfortable making them second class citizens?
Intra-muscular monoclonal antibody injections.
Off_Field wrote:
Is the argument requiring vaccine passports for restaurants, etc that there is a significantly higher risk to vaccinated people of catching covid from unvaccinated people vs vaccinated people in the restaurant? But if you are vaccinated then you’re very much less likely to have any serious reaction.
It is exactly that: As written above, even amongst the vaccinated there are 10-20% which are not immune. If they are in an “only vaccinated environment”, that is a very small risk because the likelihood that there is another vaccinated which is not protected and gets close to him is very small. If they are in an unvaccinated environment, the risk of getting the disease is 10-20%.
So it is exactly to protect those where vaccination has not been effective and those who can not be vaccinated.
Off_Field wrote:
I’m not really up to speed with the current regulations and suggestions, but what is done for those who are unable to get vaccines for medical reasons. Are we comfortable making them second class citizens?
In most countries the biggest group of these so far – the children – are except from almost all limitations. For other larger groups the question is not that relevant because they do not leave their hospital bed anyways.
Then there are very few that can’t be vaccinated and that would actually be suffering from restrictions. For those the regulations are quite different across different countries.
Peter wrote:
You can buy a finger prick test. I got one for £60 from medichecks.co.uk.
The consistency with which almost everything in the UK is priced double what we pay here is amazing. I’ve watched it for years and you could almost bet on the factor of two rule.
$38 here for wifey to check that her self made antibodies are substantially in evidence after 8 months or so, almost every pharmacy does it including those in rural areas.
I was slightly annoyed because for 60 quid I could have got a test which can tell if the antibodies came from the virus or the vaccine, or both 
Malibuflyer wrote:
If they are in an unvaccinated environment, the risk of getting the disease is 10-20%.
This is clearly nonsense. just being in an unvaccinated environment does not remotely make you 100% likely to get it.
Survival chances unvaccinated for healthy people seems to be 90+%
Vaccination being effective say 90% improvement
Difficult to quantify but just taking sensible measures yourself, distancing etc clearly makes a difference.
having to set up segregated areas for those vaccinated and those not seems pretty excessive.
It just seems to me that we are talking minor percentage points of difference to vaccinated people for the sake of massive burdens and removal of liberty.
It also doesn’t seem to make sense to me to vaccinate those who have already had it and have antibodies.
