I don’t see why the panic now regarding another wave. The vaccination centres in Switzerland are almost empty and we are quickly getting to the point where all are vaccinated who desire to be. So what is the relevance of an increase in cases? Those who become infected and hospitalized because they don’t vaccinate have only themselves to blame… a bit like the Darwin principle. The impact of any new “wave” of cases on those who have been vaccinated is not likely to be much different than the flu, which we never talk about. And once vaccinated we each can decide how much we want to protect ourselves with sanitary measures (mask-wearing, distancing).
Most the cases with the Delta variant have symptoms like a mild cold. You need to look at the results of the Zoe app not Sky News which is totally unreliable.
Of course 24 hour rolling news will trawl the UK and find the few bad cases as it’s great for ratings. Bad news sells. If they chose to, they could find many more people dying of Flu and report the daily Flu deaths, daily cancer deaths, daily heart attack deaths all of which are much higher than Covid19
The fourth wave is already burning itself out in the areas worst hit in the UK. Even without vaccination, most people get ill for a few days. Also perhaps 20-30% of people have a natural immunity and might not have ever caught this which is why there are so many asymptomatic cases.
After vaccination, this is like a Flu season it is not EbolaI have not heard of France making vaccines compulsory, but it might be.
For the moment it has been deemed better to make getting the vaccine as accessible and as easy to get as possible. In that regard vaccine centres have been opened at many of the busiest tourist spots, such as the beaches in the south, into which anyone can walk and get vaccinated, including foreign tourists.
We have had the app " Tous Covid " for some time which gives us the Covid statistics in both France and our region, plus being part of test and trace. As part of that we have our own wallet in which the details of all our Covid tests and vaccines are recorded. This can now also form part of a “bar code” I can never remember the name for the square code thing that you photograph. This can then be used as your travel card," EU pass sanitaire." You can of course also print it out and keep it in your wallet. All it does is to say how many vaccinations you have had and of what type. Nothing really personal that I would not normally carry.in other forms, eg identity card, driving licence. Interested parties just scan it like they do train tickets on the smartphone or printed paper tickets downloaded online.
The only thing I found strange was under vaccines there was no mention of Pfizer it says Biontech Manufacturing GmbH.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
The war against Corona is lost due to the stupidity and superstition of those who honestly think that the vaccines are some sort of devil’s control thread or what not. If it was only them, they don’t deserve better. But it won’t. In Switzerland already now over 200 people have been infected with the Delta stem after having been fully vaccined.
The evolutionary pressure on the virus to mutate into a vax-evading variant has nothing to do with those who refuse the vax.
It is instead entirely the result of the vax being less than effective in some people and requiring 2 doses to be even that effective. So the virus encounters part vax’d people and THERE is the evolutionary pressure on it to mutate as it can survive and evade as the virus is encountering a part effective “vax”
Indeed from what I read describing the vax as a vax within the true mean of the word is incorrect – more an injected drug that prevents the symptoms and reduces the amount of transmission. In other words much like the often derided flu vax on good years (in bad years the flu vax is a joke).
None of this effect of the vax forcing the mutation is new. There was the Dengue fever vax which ended up in the logical end of actually resulting in vax’d people being more likely to subsequently catch dengue fever than those who never had Dengue fever vax in the first place.
The covid vaccines are vaccines, they are not drugs for the symptoms and/or transmission.
Pim5 wrote:
Indeed from what I read describing the vax as a vax within the true mean of the word is incorrect
To me, the “true meaning” of the word “vaccine” is a substance that will condition your immune system to attack certain (foreign) bodies. What is your definition?
chflyer wrote:
I don’t see why the panic now regarding another wave. The vaccination centres in Switzerland are almost empty and we are quickly getting to the point where all are vaccinated who desire to be.
That is part of what worries me. We are nowhere close to a vaccination quota which would allow the openings which have been given.
chflyer wrote:
Those who become infected and hospitalized because they don’t vaccinate have only themselves to blame… a bit like the Darwin principle.
Well… while that is true, they still will occupy hospital beds and, if there’s too many of them, push the system towards the limit. And to avoid that was the whole idea as far as I recall?
gallois wrote:
The only thing I found strange was under vaccines there was no mention of Pfizer it says Biontech Manufacturing GmbH.
Pfizer is the distributor for Biontec, but who knows, maybe Biontec have their own local manufacturing center now? Possibly @Malibuflyer might know more.
Graham wrote:
The covid vaccines are vaccines, they are not drugs for the symptoms and/or transmission.
Exactly. So while they keep people who are vaccinated reasonably safe, they do not exclude them a) becoming infected and b) becoming spreaders. I guess that might well be the background why some countries still make testing mandatory, vaccinated or not.
We are nowhere close to a vaccination quota which would allow the openings which have been given.
If the health service is not under a significant load then the problem does not exist. You cannot achieve “zero” – with this virus, with the “flu”, or with anything else.
The only thing I found strange was under vaccines there was no mention of Pfizer it says Biontech Manufacturing GmbH.
This is cultural. In certain countries, “Pfizer” is de-emphasised because it is American. And in certain countries, “Biontech” is preferred because it is German.
Pfizer is the manufacturer, paying a nice royalty to Biontech. Discussed in previous posts.
Pfizer is also doing okay out of this, but they are a much bigger company, so the relative uptick is smaller
AZ is selling for “zero net profit” (interesting how the EU pays less for it than the UK – interesting formula 
) but is finally getting some result:
So while they keep people who are vaccinated reasonably safe, they do not exclude them a) becoming infected and b) becoming spreaders.
“Do not exclude” is correct but the numbers are tiny. Once vacced, the chances of you getting ill/infected/infecting others is miniscule, which is partly why Croatia and Greece have made that calculation. Also they currently benefit from near zero airline flights from the “get p1ssed and party hard” market", while those countries are gradually vaccinating. This works if you vaccinate the locals; they you don’t need to care if the (mostly young and non non vacced) tourists spread it to each other because by then you’ve got their money.
I guess that might well be the background why some countries still make testing mandatory, vaccinated or not.
Probably regulatory inertia / empire building (like we had here in the UK until The Emperor got filmed in flagrante delicto), or a weighing-up of what kind of demographic is likely to turn up in the next few months and from where
chflyer wrote:
Those who become infected and hospitalized because they don’t vaccinate have only themselves to blame… a bit like the Darwin principle.
More than 5% of the population can not be vaccinated for medical reasons. For another about 5% (that is a highly speculative number derived from similar vaccinations – will take some years to know) that are actually vaccinated the vaccination will not work.
gallois wrote:
The only thing I found strange was under vaccines there was no mention of Pfizer it says Biontech Manufacturing GmbH.
Despite American marketing, the Biontech vaccine was developed by Biontech and is also produced in Germany (and some other countries) by BioNTech. Pfizer just licensed it (i.e. they bought the rights to manufacture and market it in those countries where BioNTech could not do it itself) and as part of the deal took a share of the late stage development.
Pfizer is not not mentioned on your vaccine because you have been vaccinated with a Vaccine from BioNTech
Peter wrote:
Pfizer is the manufacturer,
This is not correct – for some countries BioNTech is making it themselves
How would you make vaccines compulsory, practically speaking? It’s a horrid idea.
Making them mandatory for certain roles e.g. healthcare work, is a separate debate.
