Well, yes, some left wing civil-libertarian “professor” would be expected to hold that view, and the Guardian would print it (standard Guardian narrative) but the opposite is much more likely i.e. it will create an incentive for non-vacced people (non vacced for whatever reason) to get vacced, because they will get privileges! Most human behaviour is driven by incentive first, and ideology comes second.
alioth wrote:
alioth wrote:
At some point if we keep closing society down due to these risks, and removing all the things that make life enjoyable, we are no longer living — just merely waiting to die instead
Well, we have seen that the measures against Covid have practically exterminated the flu this year. Personally I think this should maybe be a sign to impose restrictions in the flu season for those who refuse that vaccine. Plus to make it law to wear masks if you feel off, in tight places like public transport or other places where you can’t keep 1.5 m distance (which personally I find disgusting even without health dangers) and to make it an offence to come to work ill.
I do like the system with a green pass, which decides what people can do and what not in such epedemic situations. Why not put the flu vaccine and others on it as well and get a system going where it determines what you can do at a given time.
Apart, I think the perception what makes live enjoyable is hugely different between people. Frankly, most developments within the covid regimes have been things I don’t mind in the least. I’ve gotten to spend much more quality time with my family and saved a lot of money as the waste of money and time events were mostly closed, for all I care they could just disappear for ever. And it is a very good thing imho if people finally get to see their own countries and regions a bit closer than they usually do… it is a crying shame that people will travel to over run tourist traps instead of looking at their own country from time to time. I personally can do very well without the hassle of airline or worse train travel. As for business travel, spare me. Zoom or MS Teams can take care of all that much better and thankfully without the obligatory social functions which turn a 20 minutes meeting in a 2 day waste of time.
Maybe it would be time to finally force cinemas, theaters, stadions and so on to keep the 1.5 m distances at all times and wear masks? Who likes to be sitting like chicken in a now mostly illegal battery? Me not. I’ve not been to a cinema since the DVD was invented and maybe 2-3 times to really special theater performances, but the tight seating, the sweating, stinking crowd has always put me off that. Let alone events where there is not even seating but people simply are squeezed like sardines? Or so called “Sports” events where people, instead of practicing sports themselfs, squeeze into huge virus and dirt spreader stadions and shout their brains out? Over what? Petty nationalism or favoritism being “represented” by a team of whom not a single player is really a local?
alioth wrote:
Even though my own mother died of flu, I would consider closing society over it a huge and disproportionate overreaction to the risk.
Incidently so did mine. And before I got the regular shot, I had quite a few of them. Thankfully the one which almost killed me a few years back got me in the vaccination queue a bit earlier… but other than that, who wants to live through smallpox, measles and all the nastiness when there are vaccinations? I guess the choice is pretty Darwinian in the end.
Sorry, Mooney-Driver’s idea of the world sounds like my idea of Hell. Covid has been massively over hyped by doom porn 24 hour news. If this had happened 20 years ago before social media and rolling news, it would have been considered a bad flu season.
I know of 10 people who have had Covid and only fat and unhealthy people have had any issues so far. Also most people don’t understand being obese is a comorbidity. When you walk around the UK at least 60% of people are over weight so no wonder Covid is an issue.
Personal responsibility is what we need, the vulnerable have been vaccinated so time to open up. If you are scared you are quite welcome to stay at home.
I would rather live my life, go out, travel, stay thin and eat healthy food.
Rumour has it, Boris Johnson will hold a press conference early next week to announce freedom day with masks, social distancing, one metre plus rules all gone whilst mass events, parties and music festivals can resume along with bar service at pubs.
If he does that, he’ll be responsible for the full explosion of the 4th wave in the UK, which in any case is already in full swing. It is only the denial itself which keeps people from realizing that. Stopping measures now will nullify the effort of the last few months.
Anyway, the discussion may well be mute as the UEFA European championship will have done it’s work already. Tens of thousands of fans travelling and attending games in unsafe regions, well, if we had wanted to spread the new variants more efficiently, it could hardly have been done any better. These kind of venues must be stopped.
I fully expect that in 2-3 weeks panic is going to spread once this idiotic tournament finishes and people return home. Ischl and the super spreader events in Italy in early 2020 are already forgotten.
With the spread of the Delta and Delta Plus mutations, closing off all countries in which it already runs rampant would be the logical thing to do, vaccinations or not, but again politicians will accept thousands of ill and dead people as they have before. I really got annoyed when these mistakes happened the first time, despite expert advice, now the experts are again shouting very loudly but nobody listens. Making the same mistakes twice is criminal.
@Mooney_Driver, I hope I never have to live in a dystopian world like the one you outline and advocate. Luckily, I live in SoCal, have just had excellent craft beer in a brewery garden with a friend and am looking forward to a 4th of July BBQ with friends tomorrow. Life is good.
172driver wrote:
I hope I never have to live in a dystopian world like the one you outline and advocate.
You think this is my choice? Well, shooting the messenger is an old rite, only it has never solved a problem.
The Delta variant is ravaging Europe, it has largely nullified the efforts to stop this virus from propagating in the UK, it threatens Spain and Portugal and it WILL cause a massive 4th wave amongst the unvaccined in Europe. Hopefully the US is cleverer than last time and shut the door on it before it is too late.
Europe has proven incapable and will pay a terrible price. Holding the soccer EU is deemed by all experts as totally reckless and has been compared to “Ischgl squared” by some. Knowing that it was soccer which started the Italian wave, how dare they.
The Swiss were thankfully thrown out in the quarter finals but before that travelled to corona hotspots like St. Petersburg and the “fans” with it. I would lock the whole gang up for 10 days, quarantine and testing, but no, doesn’t happen. Well, Switzerland will go down with the Delta variant as well following this.
The war against Corona is lost due to the stupidity and superstition of those who honestly think that the vaccines are some sort of devil’s control thread or what not. If it was only them, they don’t deserve better. But it won’t. In Switzerland already now over 200 people have been infected with the Delta stem after having been fully vaccined.
Europe should be back in full lockdown. They have opened the door and the virus will march on. The plague of the middle ages is back and the people react as helpless and stupid as ever. Well, so let Darwin take care of it.
No… what is new now is the vaccine
and it works really well.
So a country can generate high levels of detected infections but not much happens. And this is how it will have to be, if you want to avoid economic collapse, huge mental health issues and the problems arising out of that, etc.
I am glad that here in the UK, Matt Hancock has gone and I hope he disappears into obscurity (with or without his mistress). He never “got” the concept of a “working vaccine” which makes quarantines pointless.
Peter wrote:
So a country can generate high levels of detected infections but not much happens. And this is how it will have to be, if you want to avoid economic collapse, huge mental health issues and the problems arising out of that, etc.
Ok, but any country which generates huge levels of infection needs to be isolated from those countries which are not and foremost do not have the level of vaccination that you have. Therefore, Brits should be totally banned from leaving their country without protection, that is vaccine AND testing until those figures are coming down. Which they won’t unless you can force vaccinate everyone.
It appears that France is looking in that direction, to force vaccination on everyone. Good step, I hope they go through with it.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
You think this is my choice? Well, shooting the messenger is an old rite, only it has never solved a problem.
You mean that statements like:
Europe should be back in full lockdown..
are not actually your opinion, the choice you would make?
The plague of the middle ages is back…
This is exaggerating so much as to make any meaningful discussion impossible. The plague in the middle ages killed somewhere around 50% of the European population. Covid-19 isn’t anywhere near that and would not be even with zero prevention measures.
