Hi All,
I’ve started doing a few jaunts with a colleague from my club, during the week, on a “He flies one way, I fly the other way” sort of thing. With the winter months approaching and the days getting shorter, the use of my Night Qual. would be mighty useful, so that we don’t need to rush our flying.
I have done complete flights NVFR in Germany before, and obviously Day-VFR too; but what I have never done is transition from one to the other, in Germany, before. I’m asking for the case of transitioning from Day-VFR to NVFR. I’m wondering how it works and I can’t find much info on this. The info is always or seems to be always for complete flights in either condition. When I have flown NVFR in the past, I’ve filed the FP and got my clearance before departure (So I know about the “being treated IFR” stuff).
Let’s give a hypotheical but probable situation to help my questioning and illustrate what I am trying to do:-
Say on a particular day SS is 16:45z and EoECT is 17:17Z (Remember it’s not SS+30 anymore 
). Also, to make the example simpler let’s ignore the few miuntes of variance you can have in SS and EoECT within a region. Let’s say I’m at an airfield which closes at SS, and I have a flight time of one hour to get back to my home-base which is open until 18:00z. So I could take-off up to 16:45z and have up to 15 minutes of margin against the home-base closing time. Now 28 minutes of that example will be NVFR.
My questions are this:-
1) In Germany, is it legal to depart VFR and open the flight plan with the regional information/controller position once airbourne? In the specific case of NVFR as I’m not sure you can “remain VFR/VMC until IFR pickup” as in the NVFR case you’re time limited, and in addition Z isn’t an option because it’s a VFR/NVFR transition and not a VFR/IFR.
2) Should you obtain the NVFR clearance before departure, even though the flight conditions are Day-VFR (actually up to 17:17z in the given example)
3) Does anyone have experience of this, that they can share?
Thanks
Jon
You are totally overthinking this.
Since SERA (2014!), ATC-wise, there no longer is a difference between day VFR flying and night VFR flying. So there is no “transition” at all.
You merely need a flightplan for VFR at night. But this flightplan is identical to any day VFR flightplan. It has nothing to do with ATC.
There are no “night VFR clearances” at all! (and btw, the term “NVFR”, though widely used, does not exist.).
If I know I will finish a given VFR flight at night, I would file a proper flight plan.
If landing at night is due to some sort of delay or wind, ATC will make do with an abbreviated. On my NQ long nav the return FPL got lost somehow, we did it in the air after the last touch and go.
Just be pragmatic and don’t overthink it.
Bosco, thanks for the quick response.
You’ve confused me with two bits of info:
Since SERA (2014!)
But this flightplan is identical to any day VFR flightplan. It has nothing to do with ATC.
Firstly, the 2014 bit, because I have done night flying after that, and the second bit
“It has nothing to do with ATC”
I’d like to share the experience which is causing me to over think this situation. One winter evening only a coupe of years (maybe 3) ago, I filed my plan, sat on the apron, engine running, called for taxi to be told there was a 45-90 minute delay due to controller workload for the FIR controllers. It’s got me thinking “how does that work in the air?”
So, if I’ve understood you correctly, I just file a completely standard VFR flight plan, (i.e. no need to do Airways Fixes for Nav etc…) and just open and close it in the normal way, right?
Oh, and
the term “NVFR”, though widely used, does not existyes, I know, but sometimes it’s easier to write with commonly understood terms
Arne wrote:
If I know I will finish a given VFR flight at night, I would file a proper flight plan.
Indeed, and for sure.
It just seems that completely under my nose, and without me noticing it, Germany got simpler… I need to say that again, Germany got simpler (light hearter humour meant by this of course!)
italianjon wrote:
I need to say that again, Germany got simpler (light hearter humour meant by this of course!)
If it helps restore you feeling of normality, the simplification was forced on Germany by the EU. :-)
So, if I’ve understood you correctly, I just file a completely standard VFR flight plan, (i.e. no need to do Airways Fixes for Nav etc…) and just open and close it in the normal way, right?
Exactly. (Just a minor note: what you call “airways fixes”, is still the norm nowadays for denominating the route in VFR flight plans. It’s just a couple of countries such as Switzerland which do not accept this and insist on town names, which is a not ICAO-compliant).
Pre-SERA, there used to be the oddity in Germany that VFR night flights, even in classes E and even G airspace, were controlled, i.e. they had to receive an enroute clearance from ATC, etc. This finished in December 2014. Nowadays, a night VFR flight is the same as a day VFR flight, i.e. uncontrolled in E and G, controlled only in C and D.
I’d like to share the experience which is causing me to over think this situation. One winter evening only a coupe of years (maybe 3) ago, I filed my plan, sat on the apron, engine running, called for taxi to be told there was a 45-90 minute delay due to controller workload for the FIR controllers. It’s got me thinking “how does that work in the air?”
Some ATC units and controllers didin’t initially understand the above once it was devised. Some ATC people didn’t like it. So, for some time even after December 2014, some controlles continued issuing VFR by night ATC clearances even for E and G. But even this has been a thing of the past for a long time now.
boscomantico wrote:
Exactly.
Vielen Dank.
Is it also accepted though to file a short flight plan while airborne with ATS (FIS?), similar to entering controlled airspace? What I’m referring to is that according to SERA one has to file a flight plan before entering controlled airspace, e.g. D to land at an controlled airport, but the common practice is to file a short flight plan with ATC 10 minutes prior to arrival transmitting only Registration, type of aircraft, position, route/intention?
