Strong crosswind landing, and techniques

@what_next

Lufthansa crews are mere mortals like everybody else

It is pretty far fetched that I would want to deny that, just because 15 years ago a LH instructor taught me the crosswind technique they use in their school.

But I stand by my opinion that it’s not great to fly a whole final approach cross controlled. Why would I unnecessarily raise the stall speed?

Use what works for you. I use crab with a kick straight and wing down just before/during the flare. I just personally dont like a long wing down final. To each their own however.

Just a reminder… each time you include the @username style in a post, the “username” gets an email in their inbox (or a notification if they used the rarely-used Pushover system) and most regular EuroGA users get fed up with that pretty quickly. It is better to use this only to draw the attention of someone who evidently visits the forum rarely, or you are responding to a very old post of theirs and hope they are still around.

@, copied

While I completely agree that it’s important to develop a personal style that works, in this case I think that long sideslips in strong crosswinds (and strong crosswinds are the topic here) cannot be the preferred way. Especially when there’s turbulence aswell the sidelsip method should not be used IMHO for the following reasons:

- The stall speed is higher than in the crab
- it s harder to maintain a stable approach in turbulence than with the crab method
- IF you stall the airplane cross controlled and close to the ground, for example in a strong gust, it will many times result in a deadly spin.
- it can also be a problem if there’s not much fuel in the tanks, the fuel can be pushed away from the outlets.

- The stall speed is higher than in the crab

That may be true, but it’s not really of much concern to me. I’m already well above the stall, when flying approach speed, so an extra knot or two on the stall is probably not relevant. Particularly so as I’m probably well below MTOW so my stall speed will be lower than book figures anyway. But if I mess up and do stall, my natural reaction will be to centre the ailerons and rudder which will instantly return my stall speed to normal.

- it s harder to maintain a stable approach in turbulence than with the crab method

I don’t think that’s really true. It is indeed harder at first, because it feels unnatural. But once you learn to ignore the unnatural feeling, it’s not very hard to fly a stablised approach in turbulance. You just ignore the turbulence and keep the controls steady and it all balances out. It’s only if you start releasing the inputs and trying to counteract the turbulence that makes it harder.

- IF you stall the airplane cross controlled and close to the ground, for example in a strong gust, it will many times result in a deadly spin.

This is essentially the same as your first point, which I don’t agree with for the same reasons.

- it can also be a problem if there’s not much fuel in the tanks, the fuel can be pushed away from the outlets.

This may indeed be an issue on some types and it’s important to take it into account. It’s not a major concern for me though, as I have a very conserative view on fuel planning.

It would be interesting to know of those who prefer one technique over another how many have actually used and persevered with both techniques before deciding on a preference.

In my case, I was shown both during my training and left to choose myself which I wanted to use. For awhile during my training I mixed and matched on the day, trying each, but found the wind down method very unnatural. So in the end I stuck with the crab appoach. It felt easy all the way down the approach, and I really only had to do something at the last moment (kick off the crab) and if I got it wrong, the whole thing was over in an instant anyway! But to be frank, my skills at kicking off the crab at just the right time were poor, which limited me to flying in weak crosswinds. I tried swapping to wing down very late in the approach, but that felt so unnatural that it resulted in crossed controls, which immediately felt so wrong late in the landing, that I’d correct by going to the opposite crossed controls and this would go on in a series, until I landed! So that didn’t last long!

So one day (long after getting my PPL) I decided to try put the wing down much earlier,when I had time to get used to the unnatural feeling and make whatever corrections were necessary, slowly. It worked like a charm so I’ve stuck with it. 30kts full crosswind and I’ll be upset if I don’t follow the centreline, and I’ll happily admit to having far less skills as a pilot to most here who fly far more than me. This method just makes it very easy for me.

I think Jason said it correctly when he said
bq. Use what works for you.

Alexis wrote:

The stall speed is higher than in the crab – No, that’s not true. There are numerous variables at play. You can’t just say the aircraft will stall at a higher speed whatever that is, bearing in mind your ASI may be talking rubbish.

- it s harder to maintain a stable approach in turbulence than with the crab method – No it’s not. That is a matter of opinion and some types are better than others,

- IF you stall the airplane cross controlled and close to the ground, for example in a strong gust, it will many times result in a deadly spin. – Why would you stall the aircraft? You have been taught slipping as part of your PPL, yes? In UK money, that would have been Exercise 8.

- it can also be a problem if there’s not much fuel in the tanks, the fuel can be pushed away from the outlets – Perhaps. Aircraft dependant.

I give up ;-)

Only this much: Of course an airplane in a forced sideslip can EASILY be stalled in a strong gust. And strong crosswinds often come with strong gusts.
All I wrote is easily accessible basic aeronautical knowledge that cannot be dismissed by saying “it’s not true” or “why should it stall”.

But if it means something to anybody: I don’t really care how others fly, it’s completely ok to do what you find right.

Maybe it helps to differentiate in the conversation between

a) flying a pattern and turning final at 500 AGL
b) flying a long 8 NM final with a DA below 500 AGL

I’ve had the impression you’all were talking about slightly different things.