what_next wrote:
The biggest (in terms of lives lost) ever low visibility accident involving a private aeroplane was caused by a runway incursion of a CitationJet in Linate. The crew consisted of two trained professional pilots. …. Training obviously does not take away all the risk.Failures by ATC and the airport management was a major factor.
In fact, I flew into Linate a few years before this collision and the departure — particularly the taxying part — was one of the scariest moments I’ve had in an aircraft. ATC was unhelpful, aggressive and obviously not in proper control of the situation.
Like saying that IFR OCAS is “VFR in IMC”.
Hmmm… that is the real world, surely??? 
ATC was unhelpful, aggressive and obviously not in proper control of the situation.
That comment could however be successfully transplanted to so much of (especially, probably because of having to conceal ELP issues) southern Europe. For sure it contributes to accidents.
Emir wrote:
The situation here is pretty obvious – it’s not allowed to depart from VFR only airport in IMC, so legally it can’t be IFR.
@Emir, it certainly was in Sweden before SERA, and I haven’t found anything in SERA to prevent it. If you know of any such rule, please tell me. I seriously want to know — no sarcasm.
PS. Maybe the problem is with the concept “VFR airport”? As far as I know that is not an official term. There are “Instrument airports” and those that are not.
Peter wrote:
Hmmm… that is the real world, surely???
No it’s not. It’s confusing VFR with some of the things that commonly characterises flight according to VFR (like not having to be in radio contact with anyone).
You could argue that it is a useful metaphor, but the potential for confusion is greater.
Airborne_Again wrote:
Failures by ATC and the airport management was a major factor.
Of course. Very few accidents are caused by a single factor. But Linate would not have happened with 400m visibility at all (because then, even those badly places taxi signs and markings would have been visible to the bizjet crew) and Tenerife might have ended with a few survivors because instead of accelerating until impact the KLM jumbo would have had a few seconds for braking and maybe even running off into the grass instead of into the other aircraft. We can’t know that but the bottom line is that the more you can see the more options you have. For me personally nothing (apart from maybe a tsunami wave approaching or a cloud of nuclear fallout) would make me do a zero/zero takeoff in any kind of aircraft not equipped for that.
The IFR are very clear and documented.
If you fly according to the IFR, and declare yourself (possibly only in your head) to be IFR, then you are IFR.
The concept of “VFR” is very different. That is flying IMC but declaring yourself to ATC/ATS as VFR. There is a whole argument to be had on that subject (preferably not here and now) but it is a completely different scenario to flying IFR OCAS.
In some countries, IFR is not permitted OCAS, in others it is; but the assumptions of pilots from the former countries are not valid in the latter.
what_next wrote:
For me personally nothing (apart from maybe a tsunami wave approaching or a cloud of nuclear fallout) would make me do a zero/zero takeoff in any kind of aircraft not equipped for that.
Doh! My example of being surrounded by Daesh won’t do?!
I would do a 0-0 takeoff if I could be 100% sure there is nothing on the runway, which is possible only by somebody driving along it just before and then positively confirming they have cleared it. Obviously this is likely a problem at a farm strip (animals, etc).
300m or so is no problem because, in my plane, by the time you are fast enough to not stop before reaching the obstruction, you are fast enough to rotate off the ground and be say 10m up before you reach it. It is however quite a spooky experience… you do need to be sure of your aircraft and the avionics.
Peter wrote:
That comment could however be successfully transplanted to so much of (especially, probably because of having to conceal ELP issues) southern Europe. For sure it contributes to accidents.
I can’t say I’ve flown a lot in southern Europe, but I’ve done some, and my experience at Linate was something else.
Timothy wrote:
Doh! My example of being surrounded by Daesh won’t do?!
I don’t know what that is therefore it doesn’t scare me
