Maoraigh wrote:
If flying close formation, his only situation awareness would have been his leader’s wingtip.
lenthamen wrote:
The F18’s were flying in formation, which makes me think it was a VFR operation.
IIRC he was tracking the leader using his radar because of the weather conditions.
Emir wrote:
Emir 11-Sep-16 21:36 #57
I’m sorry but was he trained for combat or they train display pilots only in the airforce these days?Last Edited by Emir at 11 Sep 21:37
No combat training is going to increase the angle of the radar coverage cone or make it look around corners. And no combat training is going to save you if you pop in the path of a jet that is coming from the side at 250+knots.
lenthamen wrote:
But I understand they can fly in formation in IMC using onboard radar. However, flying so close together can never be done “proper IFR” in the Eurocontol system.
Yes it can. From ATC point of view, the formation is a single aircraft. All formation flights are handled this way by ATC. (ref. SERA.3135)
I thought the Q was whether the military fly in the Eurocontrol system.
In the UK, they have their own ATC which communicates on UHF and does the separation from them.
Occassionally flying around Europe one does hear “XXX Air Force” on the radio on VHF though I doubt they are fast jets.
Peter, the military can and do fly within the Eurocontrol system. It depends on the airspace they are operating in. The UK operates a Joint and Integrated concept whereby the ‘brand’ of controller you talk to depends on your location. In the same breath, many civil airliners are controlled by the RAF, especially those operating along the East coast outside of the Class A infrastructure.
lenthamen wrote:
Do military fly Eurocontol IFR? I’ve never heard a military aircraft on the radio.
I thought one purpose of the A400M getting civilian certification was the ability to more easily use civilian airspace / atc, but might be wrong about it.
I’m pretty sure I heard at least once militaries on a civilian frequency. Or at least a heli (?) formation with very cool callsigns (something like Black Widow 3)
The military do fly in European civil controlled airspace. I’ve had pretty much every type available these days. Only difference is when they are only able to communicate on UHF. But civil ATC has some frequencies allocated for that purpose.
airways wrote:
The military do fly in European civil controlled airspace. I’ve had pretty much every type available these days. Only difference is when they are only able to communicate on UHF. But civil ATC has some frequencies allocated for that purpose.
They don’t have all VHF?? (I don’t have any evidence otherwise, just surprised, and I’ve seen before you seem to be ATC so going to trust you!).
That basically would remove most of interception capability (leaves only visual manoeuvers) / get help from civilian ATC anywhere (or maybe civilian is always on watch on some predefined UHF channels?).
Not all of them do, but every acft intended for interceptions does have VHF. I would even think the majority of the fleet does.
Every UK military aircraft has a VHF radio.
