You don’t fly over built up area for that long? and if you survived a crash near a city you can go by car and that is the end of it?
It takes roughly half a day to get back home after landing on land with dry foots, water ditching will take far longer I think or even forever depending on your hight…
On a 15min crossing I don’t think height is essential just a convinience but going direct IOW to Jersey, you will have to change fuel tanks at some point? (and that has nothing to do with engine reliability)
I don’t fly anywhere at 700-1000ft except crosswind, downwind and base legs of a circuit.
What has how one gets home after it got to do with anything? My concern is staying alive in the event of an emergency.
When we crossed the Channel via ALD-SKESO-BHD, we flew FL65 one way FL75 the other way, no problem with Jersey.
When I took off from Guernesey last summer, I was initially cleared « not above 2000 ft » but made it clear I wanted higher ASAP and APP cleared me 3000 than 4000 then 5000 just as I passed through those altitudes. There were pretty nice and conscious of our risks.
Sorry for the French messing up, I can so much imagine the havoc 
. I didn’t expect a clearance (to be read back) neither when I called Ground for start-up. Flying VFR in France, you never have to read back a clearance (except CAS crossing but ask an ATCO how many acknowledge correctly 
)
My point one has to fly high if he has to rely on other people for his survival after landing, it has nothing to do with how much you trust your engine or flying skills (and you should not for both)
Jujupilote wrote:
Flying VFR in France, you never have to read back a clearance (except CAS crossing but ask an ATCO how many acknowledge correctly )
In my experience, French ATC is also ambiguous / implicit in this. I had a fine example yesterday. I took off from an airfield without any local ATC/AFIS/… presence. So after leaving the circuit, I asked the local FIS (SIV), who was also the approach controller of the neighbouring regional airport, for:
The controller duly confirmed he would activate my flight plan, gave me the QNH and … I never heard back on the clearance to enter, until I pressed the issue just before entering. The typical French ATC implicit “you are in contact with me, I didn’t tell you no, so obviously I don’t mind you entering”. So how can a pilot become used to reading back, if there is no explicit clearance to read back?
Relying on other people (i.e. the mayday call and getting rescue services is part of it), but it’s also because in the event of engine failure over water I want time and altitude for the following:
- positioning: where am I going to ditch (are there boats or islands/islets/rocks nearby) and in which direction, what is the wind/swell?
- getting the cabin sorted: stowing any loose articles, getting seats positioned correctly, making sure the raft is to hand
- briefing passengers: they may need calming down and further information on what is expected from them, re: opening doors and stuff like that
- spending some time trying to restart the engine: changing tanks, cycling mags, mixture, throttle settings etc.
I would rather have 5+ minutes for all of this rather than 1-2 minutes.
Apart from anything else, I would like to have a conversation with ATC after my initial mayday call where I update them on where exactly we’re going down, when we will be down, and getting reassurance that the rescue heli crew is strapping in with rotors turning as we speak.
Flying VFR in France, you never have to read back a clearance (except CAS crossing but ask an ATCO how many acknowledge correctly
That is horrible, but everybody who has ever flown in France (except ever so carefully sticking to Class E/G) will know that is how it is… It goes against the grain, especially with Brits who are taught to obey ATC and the penalty is crucifixion (well that is for minor offences; for serious ones, usually involving the absolutely feared word “airways”, you are told you will get this).
The problem is that you can’t do that anywhere else in Europe.
Also, if you screwed up badly somewhere, maybe caused an accident, how would the accident report look? Would the BEA really say in the report “hey, in France nobody reads back clearances, but we never filed a difference to ICAO”? Presumably the matter never gets tested because accidents where it is a factor are extremely rare, not least because France has good ATC and good radar coverage. And anywhere where runway incursions could cause a problem the traffic will be IFR.
BTW I am sure taxi clearances are expected to be read back even in France, at any airport bigger than a farm strip, although I must say I have never tested this. At say LFAT the ATCO will make damn sure you know what you are supposed to do.
Anyway, I should not go off topic because we have been there before:
The typical French ATC implicit “you are in contact with me, I didn’t tell you no, so obviously I don’t mind you entering”. So how can a pilot become used to reading back, if there is no explicit clearance to read back?
When is a clearance not a clearance, or maybe is?
I would rather have 5+ minutes for all of this rather than 1-2 minutes.
Exactly. I have had a couple of these and not always in convenient places
The UK doesn’t operate that system, unfortunately. We did that here before e.g. here. Flying at CAS base is busting CAS
And they have never really published an ICAO exemption though. I wonder why.
Sorry, I was not very precise in my previous post.
Yes, in France,VFR pilots are supposed and taught (maybe not since long ago) to read back :
Take off /landing clearances
Taxi clearances
CAS clearances
What I meant is : a VFR pilot in France will never be required to note and read back an IFR-like ‘departure’ clearance. When I called EGJB Ground on my hand held for VFR start-up (mainly to be sure they had my FPL), they instantly answered with IIRC « cleared to exit Jersey zone via North East Corner not above 2000 ft, squawk xxxx ». I grabbed my kneepad and was proud to be able to read back in one go (felt like an IFR pilot )
It is a chicken-and-egg situation. If LFPT tower had to make every pilot read back every clearance (even taxi via « Alpha »), they would spend their days asking for it. Even some instructors do not do it, and don’t admit they have to. Guess what their students do
Jujupilote wrote:
« cleared to exit Jersey zone via North East Corner not above 2000 ft, squawk xxxx ».
I don’t know if that is an “IFR-like departure clearance”. That’s sounds what I would expect to get, flying VFR!
