What are secondary movements?
I think it’s mouvements of people who are not Shengen citizens or Shengen residents
Like mouvements of temporary visitors, asylum seekers inside Shengen area as there is lot of disagreement between EU countries on the criteria for these…
Rwy20 wrote:
I’ve been flying to multiple French “intermediate” airports over the last year or so and can confirm that it’s now basically standard procedure to ask for PPR even for intra Schengen flights for all airports that in principle have customs/immigration. As mentioned by @Ibra, there’s nothing that would prevent you going to a smaller airfield in these scenarios. I guess the reason for this is the double Schengen suspension by France, one for “terrorism” which has been prolonged every 6 months since 2014, and one for “Covid”.
Annecy as and example (Customs with PPR for extra Schengen) does NOT have this requirement for Intra Schengen. I highly doubt btw that this will hold up if challenged in a European court, in particular if you are an EU citizen (and even more if you’re a non French citizen)…
gallois wrote:
I can’t find any reference to the terrorism law currently suspending Schengen or EU customs. Do you have a reference for that?
It is not linked to the Terrorism law (and BTW no single country can suspend Schengen – countries can however WITH prior notification and for a period of MAX 6 months reinstall temporary border controls) but to COVID events, duly notified to the EC and EU parliament.
Temporary Schengen suspension thread.
I highly doubt btw that this will hold up if challenged in a European court
The problem is that you end up arguing with someone carrying a 9mm, and a court victory might come a year or two later and cost you 6 digits 
Peter wrote:
The problem is that you end up arguing with someone carrying a 9mm, and a court victory might come a year or two later and cost you 6 digits
you’re so hung up on this 9mm thing (I can guarantee you that they carry a lot bigger than a simple 9mm) but do you have ANY reference to ANYONE being shot for arguing with a policeman in France? Come on let’s be serious, they would be in a lot more trouble than you are.
Have a look at this video and tell me if even when provoked, put on fire etc. they don’t show an incredible amount of constraint. The gun doesn’t even come out of the holster. France isn’t the US, try this in the US and you’d be smoked (rightly in my view) in a second.
I doubt you can argue with police & customs for checks? in France, they are entitled by law to check people identity & goods even when walking between Paris & Normandie miles away from airports,
What you can argue about is different,
- Having to send PNR (or even worse PPR, when the last time one managed to get a reply )
- Being asked your reason for travel (tricky when you don’t have one other than flying)
- Having to use main terminal gate vs club or parachutists gates
- Having to put stuff in X-ray machine at Bergerac or Lille
you’re so hung up on this 9mm thing (I can guarantee you that they carry a lot bigger than a simple 9mm) but do you have ANY reference to ANYONE being shot for arguing with a policeman in France? Come on let’s be serious,
I was pulling your leg about getting actually shot in this situation but the practicality is surely 100% real. Are you going to argue with the police? Are you going to argue with the OPS office at Caen which demands 24hr PPR for arrivals from the UK? You will get precisely nowhere. Are they going to reply saying “whoops, you are right, our requirements are illegal, so just fly in anytime”? That protester in the video is not a pilot, like we are. He has nothing to lose, and if he gets arrested he will at least get a dinner. If I land at LFAT and just walk past the police, it is 100% certain they will arrest me. If they feel really nice they might let me fly back to the UK, but prob99 they will use whatever force is needed (including handcuffs) to stop me entering France, unless they see the right papers.
The relevance of the “9mm” is that it enables the employment of people with a lower IQ, which doesn’t help us pilots either.
Peter wrote:
Are you going to argue with the police? Are you going to argue with the OPS office at Caen which demands 24hr PPR for arrivals from the UK? You will get precisely nowhere. Are they going to reply saying “whoops, you are right, our requirements are illegal, so just fly in anytime”? That protester in the video is not a pilot, like we are. He has nothing to lose, and if he gets arrested he will at least get a dinner. If I land at LFAT and just walk past the police, it is 100% certain they will arrest me. If they feel really nice they might let me fly back to the UK, but prob99 they will use whatever force is needed (including handcuffs) to stop me entering France, unless they see the right papers
I am for sure going to argue that within the EU, yes and I have argued with Customs before, very assertive but respectful if they show up late after a PPR (which I have posted about). That being said, the UK has left the EU, that will and has to come with extra checks, so at LFAT (where there is customs) NO you (and even I as an EU resident and citizen, I know you have and EU passport as well) cannot do that. Within the EU however, I will tell them very kindly NO, and even in Switzerland (spoiler they have guns too) I am going to argue as they are part of Schengen. Random checks, yes, allowed – systematic not so much. I am very confident doing that as I think most Europeans are, the separation of the state here is probably a little bit clearer than it other regions.
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
and even in Switzerland (spoiler they have guns too) I am going to argue as they are part of Schengen. Random checks, yes, allowed – systematic not so much.Switzerland may be part of Schengen, but it’s not within the EU, i.e. systematic checks on goods are allowed. And as part of a “customs check”, officers may always ask for your ID or passport, which can be a hidden immigration check.
from Wiki:
The four European Free Trade Association (EFTA) member states, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland, are not members of the EU, but have signed agreements in association with the Schengen Agreement.
My comment: Means free movement of people. But not goods. Pilot = people. Aircraft = goods
… up to a short time ago 
