OK, cool it, guys. Getting way too personal.
achimha wrote:
I don’t really care that much about all landmarks, city names, etc.
I flew recently to Buochs LSZC. With the takeoff clearance I was instructed to report abeam Weggis which I had to search on the map as I did not know where it is. Weggis is on the official Swiss map. A hypothetical situation: if your software map does not have a city and you are asked to do something abeam it, how would you react? Ask ATC for another landmark?
achimha wrote:
That is completely irrelevant today.
Mountains and islands are the only obvious landmarks many places. What will you do when the lady in the tower at an AFIS airport tell you to report when passing and arbitrary island named XXX ? Ask for GPS coordinates?
There are places where a real map has minor relevance, but there are other places where maps is the key for efficient communication.
Vladimir wrote:
A hypothetical situation: if your software map does not have a city and you are asked to do something abeam it, how would you react? Ask ATC for another landmark?
Of course, what’s the problem? ATC can expect published visual reporting points but for the rest, I have no problem asking. A lot of people still have that old thinking that IFR waypoints are for IFR but everybody can navigate to them using GPS so instead of landmarks, they should just use reporting points.
What will you do when the lady in the tower at an AFIS airport tell you to report when passing and arbitrary island named XXX ? Ask for GPS coordinates?
Tell her I don’t know where that is? Anyway, my obligations to AFIS are very limited.
achimha wrote:
ATC can expect published visual reporting points but for the rest, I have no problem asking.
I remember being told during my training that landmarks from the map should be used when talking to ATC and also that they will only give you landmarks that are on the map. So if they tell you “report Weggis” and you say “hmm, give me another landmark, I don’t have Weggis” they might assume you are flying with insufficient chart material. Might…
Vladimir, you beat me to it 
Vladimir wrote:
I flew recently to Buochs LSZC. With the takeoff clearance I was instructed to report abeam Weggis which I had to search on the map as I did not know where it is. Weggis is on the official Swiss map. A hypothetical situation: if your software map does not have a city and you are asked to do something abeam it, how would you react? Ask ATC for another landmark?
That’s exactly what I’d do. You can also advise ATC you’re unfamiliar with the area (such as if they say “report abeam the golf course” and you’re like: “What the hell.. there’s a golf course here? Where?”) and they’ll usually be more specific by either using “official” landmarks only (in Germany and I would say many parts of Europe, ATC will mostly be using VRPs and other aviation-related points anyway) or they will explain to you how to find the landmark they were referring to.
Vladimir wrote:
they might assume you are flying with insufficient chart material. Might…
Let them assume whatever they want… They are not the police.
Patrick wrote:
Let them assume whatever they want… They are not the police.
Could quickly organize a ramp check for you at your destination. And then it becomes a question of what the police (or whatever these people are) think and then it becomes important what “sufficient material” means and if the app you have is sufficient or not.
Vladimir wrote:
I remember being told during my training that landmarks from the map should be used when talking to ATC and also that they will only give you landmarks that are on the map. So if they tell you “report Weggis” and you say “hmm, give me another landmark, I don’t have Weggis” they might assume you are flying with insufficient chart material. Might…
The problem only is there there is no “the map”. There are many maps and what you quote is not really true, maybe was in the 1980s when VFR pilots had no means of navigation but by landmarks and compass. ATC feel most comfortable with waypoints. Both parties know exactly where they are, no ambiguities. If ATC start with landmarks, I usually respond “not familiar with the area”. Why should I move my attention to the map and try to find something? That’s not safe and not necessary.
