LFHNflightstudent wrote:
He worked on it and got a Level 5 (valid a bit longer) at a later stage. The club instructor (and Aeroclub President) sorted that for him. He was obviously an examiner and it happened at the PPL renewal after 2 years…
Ok that’s nice to know, I guess I might see if I can get a level 6 that way.
Of course, all of this is ridiculous, I know of some French pilots who have level 5 or 6 English and would have trouble ordering fish and chips in the UK 
“French pilots who have level 5 or 6 English and would have trouble ordering fish and chips in the UK ”
That’s very true. Because under the DGAC test in Paris despite the fact that the information given when taking the test said it was not a test requiring aviation or aeronautical knowledge, it sure as hell was. Also you had to know your way round a computer to find the questions and answers quickly in the QCM.
Easy question for Brits but not for French unless they work in the industry. “What do you call a person who is booked but does not check in?”
Answer “A no show”. I just thought it was someone who hadn’t turned up and lost points.
But not all Brits have good radio English either, there are many hmmning and harring. I would only give some of them a level 4.
We did that one before too – here 
A native French speaker who got ELP 6, with the examiner also being a French native, may be unintelligible to a native Brit, or perhaps to an English speaker from one of the other countries where English is spoken widely (Benelux, Sweden, Germany, etc). This is due to the strong accent, with strongly drawn-out words (vowels?), which are understood OK by a native.
I am told by a French source (who didn’t post this here on EuroGA so I won’t say who) that this is changing, and present-day school children are speaking the more “normal” English, but they are ridiculed by their classmates for doing that, and are pressured to speak the “drawn out accented” English. But he reckons that eventually the whole scene will change; maybe in 10 years’ time. Not for existing long-time pilots or ATCOs though.
One realises this when flying in France. Occassionally you get an ATCO who doesn’t seem to understand anything (evident from the usual technique – perfected to an art form by Spanish ATC – of not replying to the radio call). But more surprisingly you get one whose spoken English is really good, but also eventually you realise he/she didn’t understand anything you said…
Peter wrote:
children are speaking the more “normal” English, but they are ridiculed by their classmates for doing that
Nothing new, it always happened, and the same happens in Italy, and I would bet it’s the same in many other European countries.
Peter wrote:
But more surprisingly you get one whose spoken English is really good, but also eventually you realise he/she didn’t understand anything you said…
Most of us learn American English first, due to exposure to media, so hearing the British accent is VERY confusing for people who are not accustomed to it. Sorry, you “invented” the language but now you are the minority
Peter wrote:
One realises this when flying in France. Occassionally you get an ATCO who doesn’t seem to understand anything (evident from the usual technique – perfected to an art form by Spanish ATC – of not replying to the radio call). But more surprisingly you get one whose spoken English is really good, but also eventually you realise he/she didn’t understand anything you said…
I actually think it has massively improved in France, I find most ATC to be pretty good. When they aren’t it usually works to the pilot’s advantage. ‘’G-XXXH request.’’ ‘’SAY REQUEST’’ ‘’Can I get a more direct to X because of higher than forecast headwind’’ ‘’Euh Standbaaay’’ ‘’CLEARED DIRECT TO’’ ;-)
In state schools the level of English in France is higher than French in England; having done both, the level of teaching varies in different areas but is largely comparable overall. There are other factors, e.g. motivation and exposure to foreign-language media, which with the internet is easier to get than ever.
My students at the time actually wanted a French accent when speaking English and this is still the case as a teacher friend was complaining about this recently. Conversely, I have noticed in the last few years that young people in France now sound almost American when speaking English.
In education in France there is a prejudice against American English in favour of British English. A colleague at the time, who had the agrégation*, found this frustrating as she would use small articles from the New York Times but be told they contained spelling mistakes
There is an even higher level, English-language-only-used-in-French-academia. An example is translating dépendu in the context of a suicide: a native speaker would say something like ‘have cut down the body’, but the official translation was “ unhanged or possibly dehanged; reject unhung or dehung ”. I should hasted to add that none of these are real words in English.
*The agrégation is a competitive civil service examination which confers the right to teach at university or degree level. Very difficult.
Seba wrote:
They give level 4 by default to non-French citizens, no matter how good your French is. I already knew it would happen as the guy who oversaw my FCL.055 test (before the PPL checkride) noticed that I was not French and warned me that my French proficiency on the licence would not be a level 6.Almost similar story for me in Germany. I live and work in Germany, but due my Dutch citizenship, the German CAA gave me only level 4 in German after obtaining my PPL. As I do also own the ELP, I decided to let the German one expire, as a ELP overrules each other language proficiency according to FCL.055. I still own a German R/T license though, but that one cannot expire. France doesn’t have any R/T license as far as I know.
Hi all,
As new member on this forum, I must admit I didn’t read the whole thread but, If I may, I will ask a question on my personal situation.
I am a PPL student in a belgian (french speaking) flight school, I am a native french speaker.
I will be soon ready for my final Practical skill test, so I have started too look into the administrative process to request a the license.
I passed the theoretical PPL(A) exam in french at the CAA of Luxembourg (DCA) as for some reason the belgian CAA refuses to organize exams for the moment.
I also have obtained an English Langage Proficiency (ELP) certificate Level6.
I emailed the BelgianCAA about having a Fench language proficiency added to my license on the basis that all my theoretical instruction( and practical) was done in french and that I am french speaking, they simply answered that I need to pass an exam for french at an approved EASA assessement center …
Does anybody have a experience with such a situation ? And would point me to the easiest and cheapest way to legally be allowed to speak french on the radio ? Can the FE during the skill test assess French Radiotelephony ? Or should I convert my license to a french CAA one after having obtained it here in belgium ?
This is nothing to do (bizarre I know) with French radiotelephony. The French language proficiency, like the ELP is supposed to be about how fluently you can converse in a language, pronunciation etc. There is a guide to ELP requirements on the DGAC website and although it insists it is not about aviation phraseology, in the DGAC test, it is.They lie.
Returning to the French. The level you get when doing your flight training in French used to get to a level 6 FLP but now apparently it doesn’t.
However, for DGAC it is not whether or not you are French that counts but whether French is your mother tongue. If it is you are automatically entitled to a level 6 FLP. So in reality you already have it and the only question would be how to get it on your licence.
At an ATO here, many students do their ELP with James who posts on this site. And very good he is too. They used to get an attestation through the Belgian CAA, now it is the Malta CAA, which the DGAC accepts and records it in your French licence. I would suggest that maybe the French DGAC would provide you with an attestation which the Belgian CAA can then record in your licence.
Thanks for the heads up, seems needlessly complicated considering that french is also an official language of Belgian CAA, but oh well…
Thanks for the heads up.
