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The Shetland Islands

We have the Shetland Islands on the list of possible destinations this year but it looks to be about 75NM over water. What does the team think – would you only do it with an immersion seat or would you trust a liferaft and jackets? Would you do it in a PA28 with only one door?

EHLE / Lelystad, Netherlands, Netherlands

Peter, I think these are tricky questions to ask over a web forum. It really is a personal choice. Your chances of having a problem are very very low (assuming a decently maintained aircraft) – how many engine failures have you had over land? If you have a problem though you will wish you had a suit.

EGTK Oxford

I would consider the following factors:

  • who owns the aircraft (if a school, think twice) and what’s their attitude to mainteance?
  • who maintains the aircraft?
  • history of “trouble”?
  • how many different people fly it?
  • is the RHS passenger fit mobile and healthy?
  • what altitude?
  • how many hours on the engine and over how many years?

I wouldn’t do it in some piece of wreckage, like the ones I did my PPL in. Also not with a high sea state e.g. 30kt wind. Pick a resonably calm day.

Without question, I would carry a raft.

I do 75nm+ over water every time I fly Shoreham-Caen or Shoreham-Cherbourg, and it’s out of glide range for most of the distance. Even Le Touquet is about 30 mins out of glide range (unless one goes the long way). Only Belgium/etc is possible in glide range (FL100+ and an IR needed). But then I have a zero tolerance to defects and a money no object attitude to maintenance.

The MTBF of a Lyco is of the order of 50000 hrs. So provided it isn’t some old heap, I would go.

Make sure there is some fuel in the tanks; that seems to be the biggest ditching factor

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

It really depends on your personal risk-tolerance profile. My worry would actually not be the ocean, but the PA28. I’ve always hated that single door.

I’ve never quite understood the fear people have of flying over water. In fact, at least where I do most of my flying, any forced landing is most likely to ruin my day(s). Not everywhere is full of flat fields!

I’d fly it (preferably in something with two doors) and a raft.

I think the single door is my biggest worry – unless I am sitting next to it. The flying machine is not a problem – we own it ourselves and only 3 people fly it. Like Peter, we have a zero tolerance for faults. It may be in need of a re-spray but everything else is fine and the motor has 400 hours/ 5 years on it. One of us has an IR so we do not suffer from height restrictions (but no O2 or de-ice)

Last Edited by Peter_Mundy at 24 Feb 18:41
EHLE / Lelystad, Netherlands, Netherlands

It depends on the time of year I suppose, but I’ve done similar distances over water with life jackets and life raft in a PA28. If it was over the North Sea in Winter I’d probably go for immersion suits. When it’s too warm or cold precisely to wear immersion suits, I’m not sure.

Some some ago, we had a similar discussion (even though involving much longer distances over water) here.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

I make it 27NM from N Orkney to Fair Isle, then 23 NM to Sumburgh Head. That shortens your time over water.The Pa28 has only one door – but it should be above water. The Cessnas have two doors, but are high wing. I always wear a lifejacket over the Highlands, but have never carried a life raft, or worn a survival suit. I haven’t been to Shetland, but have done the 27 NM trip to Stornoway and the 37NM trip Barra to Ardnamurchan without worrying. My longest over water was 64NM Ireland to SW Mull. But the Jodel DR1050 has a reputation for floating. And the rescue services are good – for your trip there’s a rescue helicopter at Sumburgh.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

I’d do it in my cub with a lifejacket. I regularly do Caen Cherbourg IOW. I prefer water to vast expanses of pine forests anyway.

It's supposed to be fun.
LFDW

The problem is the engine not the door. The door only becomes a problem if a number of very unlikely events coincide. It has been shown that people systematically overestimate the risks of very unlikely events.

This overestimation is not the problem as it encourages us to be careful. But I would spend a lot more time on the mechanical soundness of your aircraft vs door counts.

Last Edited by JasonC at 24 Feb 22:29
EGTK Oxford
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