I’m still not seeing any evidence that an “aérosurface” applies to regular aircrafts, or that any kind of temporary surface applies to aircrafts.
For ULMs (cf. OP), you have nothing to do, especially if you abide by the limits imposed to helicopters (200 movements per year is a lot) – and your field is not in a specific designated area requiring authorization. I would feel comfortable flying 50+ times / year with a ULM without any authorization, since I can always point to those equivalent limits for helicopters if the administration starts asking questions.
maxbc wrote:
I’m still not seeing any evidence that an “aérosurface” applies to regular aircrafts, or that any kind of temporary surface applies to aircrafts.
Just try it, ideally in PA18 
(I know there is no legal definition but don’t shoot the messanger)
Yeah I see, it may be worth a try. But it’s not much more hassle to create a private aerodrome anyway 
Yes, if you have +600m (at least in Normandie and many regions) and “dossier environment,” go for private AD
The problem of going via the new mayor/dgac route is that prefecture (or other agencies and planning) can ban it. While if you go via old route, you cover your bases early on and they can’t change their mind easily…
AFAIK it has never been possible to land an SEP on any piece of land. EG You have engine failure you land in a field you need to report to the police and the prefect and need their permission to take off from the same field. Plus you or your insurance pays the landowner for any damage.
Having your own airfield on your own or leased land needs permission from mayor, prefect and if used by others it will need a DGAC check out.
La Tranche sur Mer and Lucon Chasnais are both private airfields needing an annual permission to land there if not based.
Lucon Chasnais has both an aeroclub and a DTO. Lucon Chasnais have a DA40. Until recently La Tranche had an aeroclub and also a DTO. They used Robin 420. Sadly, following Covid the club suffered decline in PPL activity and now they stick to ULM.
I think with permission an SEP can still land there.
A helisurface needs permission from mayor, prefect and DGAC of it is open to CAP helicopters.
However a helicopter can land anywhere with permission from landowner but it is best to have the mayor’s ok.
Balloons, UL helicopters and gyrocopters are all ULMs and have the same privaleges.
But of course a balloon even used commercially lands just where the wind takes it.
Some CAP airfields eg Royan and Niort need PPR for a ULM but not for an SEP.
So maxbc it does depend what your aim is.
AFAIK it has never been possible to land an SEP on any piece of land
It was complicated and near impossible and surely not worth it for one-off as you need prefet, police, douanes, militaire….(things are easy now to establish private AD since NCO/NCC and since new consultation)
Have you flown to Crotoy beach in PA18?
For engine failures, you still need runway engineer, gendarmes and instructor at controls… if you land off airport, however, it’s a different topic all together? you don’t need land owner permission to land dead stick
Lucon Chasnais has both an aeroclub and a DTO. Lucon Chasnais have a DA40. Until Tranche had an aeroclub and also a DTO. They used Robin 420. Sadly, following Covid the club suffered decline in PPL activity and now they stick to ULM.
Are you sure? what kind of flight training they do in DA40? FCL training for ab-initio on unlicensed airfields not in AIP/VAC is prohibited in France…
You can have FCL training in private aerodrome, however, the runway has to be licenced by DGAC (I did my training at Fontnay-Tresigny which is private AD licenced in VAC and open CAP)
DA40 is PPL training as was La Tranche sur Mer.
What are you calling a licenced airfield?
For instance LFFK is CAP airfield but I have never heard the term licenced or unlicensed in terms of French airfields.
Lucon Chasnais and La Tranche are not CAP airfields and there are no VACs for them in the AIP.
What are you calling a licenced airfield?
I mean licensed runways with AD entry in AIP/VAC (certified surface and distance by DGAC)
Runways that are not listed in AIP/VAC are not licensed (and PPL training in SEP is prohibited)
It’s not about airport, the permission or approval is about the runway
I would be curious to know if there are exemptions now for DTO who can do PPL training on unlicensed runways in private airfields?
DA40 is PPL training as was La Tranche sur Mer
La TrancheSurMer have “ULM School” with Savannah (450kg), I don’t see any DTO with SEP/PPL? From their website, even ULM training is closed
Notre école de pilotage ULM est pour l’instant fermée, en attente du changement de classification de l’aérodrome
http://www.aclatranchesurmer.fr/
Lucon Chasnais have ULM & SEP in their fleet (no AIP entry or ICAO code). However, it’s crystal clear that they don’t teach PPL in DA40 there, read their “home-made VAC”
Commercial activity and training flights not permitted (due to private airfield status)
I wonder if DGAC did certify the runways, they look in good shape?
https://s3f24fa57375e0f11.jimcontent.com/download/version/1701883300/module/12382794112/name/VAC-AAP-LF8523%2001-11-2022.pdf
local copy
You can always pick student as pax then go elsewhere for training, circuits, exams…
As I said, before private AD is simple if you keep it simple:
AGAIN, as I said keep it no Aviation €€€: very quiet, no pilot training, no aeroclub, no landing fees, no maintenance, no aircraft rental, no fuel storage or trading…you can open other non-aviation related business like fishing, restaurant, hotel, chicken factory…in other words, you are supposed to do aviation part for the love of it
I forgot “private aerodrome” = no lights, no paints, no marks, no radionav aids, no LVP, no ILS…
Lucon Chasnais is a DTO we share instructors. The same was true of La Tranche Sur Mer up until last year as I wrote. It got rid of its Robin and the DTO through lack of demand. They also shared an instructor with us. It is now just a ULM school.
Neither Lucon Chasnais or La Tranche sur Mer have an AIP VAC entry. And have not for some time if ever.
Due to noise restrictions most of their circuit training is done elsewhere.So it wasn’t the DGAC but the neighbours who curtailed the circuits.
I don’t know of any changes to DGAC regulation on training on CAP airfields (it is mostly CAP airfields which have an AIP VAC). But if there are it must have been in the last year or so.
Unlicensed and licensed airfields and training was always in my understanding a UK thing and referred to whether or not there was some sort of ATS. IIUC that has changed now and in the UK you can now train at a private strip with no ATS. (But I may be misunderstanding what I have read.)
Incidentally somewhere online you will find video of both the 3/4scale Mosquitoes and a DC3 landing at Lucon Chasnais. Probably 5 or 6.years ago.
