I was wondering if any experienced French IFR pilots can help me?
I’m thinking of bringing my plane from Cannes to Arcachon so I can do some flying while I’m on the Atlantic coast. I’ll do it IFR, no problem with that part.
But Arcachon is VFR only, no approaches (though it has an AFIS). My problem is how to do the last 15 minutes of the flight, without getting into trouble. The possibilities seem to be:
- cancel IFR somewhere around SAU and just continue VFR. But the airspace in between is fearsome, with lots of red stuff
- file to Bordeaux LFBD and break off the approach at 1000 feet. Will ATC allow that?
- ditto but to Biscarosse, a bit south, which does have approaches. Problem is it gives about 30 seconds to get clearance from Cauzaux to fly through R31
- file to LFCH but then ask ATC to fly the arrival/approach to LFBD and then break off
- something else?
Anyone got any advice, especially based on experience?
I think I’ve mastered IFR flight in France, but mixed IFR/VFR still terrifies me.
Thanks!
You may fly ifr in uncontrolled airspace, descending below cloudbase and cancel ifr then.
My advice is to file an I FPL if you are not looking for short cuts and I cannot see how they would help on this journey. Without getting my maps out it looks like you will approach Bordeaux on the A25.
Of course you will need to see if it validates.
In the particular case you present I would phone the BRIA at Bordeaux ( you mentioned you are a fluent French speaker). I have on several occasions used the IAP at Bordeaux Mérignac LFBD to descend and then proceed to Bordeaux Léognan Saucat LFCS.
Below 1000ft you will still be under Bordeaux CTL and need to follow their directions. Probably either to Echo 1 or MAPRI. From Echo1 staying below 1000ft then go either Echo or November Echo of Arcachon. It is possible that at or about Echo1 or MAPRI Bordeaux will hand you over to Aquitaine SIV or you will stay on frequency for a little longer and be transferred to Arcachon AFIS. You need to be aware of swift frequency changes and the VRPs for Arcachon.
The scenarios are much more difficult to explain than to do, but my reasoning for not cancelling IFR unless I am looking for a short cut which IFR does not allow is simply due to clouds and visibility.
If I cancel IFR in Bordeaux Class D airspace I need to be aware of the keeping clear of cloud regs.
Secondly, arrival at an airfield OCAS without AIP and with or without ATS the visibility regs are pretty much the same as those under VFR.
On arrival at Bordeaux from the east IFR in VMC I might well be given a descend and direct transit across their zone just as I possibly would in VFR ie a short cut (That’s of course if one doesn’t want to do the approach).
For Biscarosse I take it you would fly to an intersection like Vavix, descend before entering the R31 A2 to below 1000ft unless it is inactive.
If you let down at Biscarosse LFHB simply follow the VFR routeing OS – Oscar2 around Cazaux airspace until WS south of the dune du Pyla and then Papa or SD. If Cazaux is inactive you could possibly route direct. You are OCAS so you can basically do what you want. But remember you need to see and avoid or at least avoid other traffic.
On arrival at Arcachon I can’t remember whether the AFIS can close your FPL so you may need to phone to do so.
Leaving Arcachon IFR is a different matter and you need to study the text of LFBD eAIP as well as that of Arcachon.
Entering any of the RAs is often possible even when active but you need to speak to them directly and plan for no clearance.
Perfect! Thanks! I’d filed something else which seemed to work, but this is much better. I’m IFR all the way to MAPRI (…-GAI-SAU-MAPRI) and cross MAPRI at 1000, which is necessary for R31 without needing to talk to Cazaux. CAS goes down to 1000 at MAPRI, so this should all be fine.
I’ve done IFR departures before, but not arrivals – we’d done the approach to LFBD then just broke off (actually one time got told to get out of the way of the A320 behind us!). On departure you head to E then when you get there they hand you off to Bordeaux who send you to MAPRI or ASKAN, depending where you’re headed.
Thanks again!
Quick update – flew this today. Filed IFR-Y, IFR to MAPRI/F010, i.e. cross at 1000 feet, then VFR. AtC was super helpful, sent me direct MAPRI from a long way off, guided me round some aerobatics, and gave me a series of stepped descents down to 1000 from FL080 which meant that I was in almost constant descent.
Were you not able to file an I FPL? I realise it probably would not have been very different to fly it but most I know file “I” unless they really choose to fly VFR at some stage on the journey.
I realise in this case I or Y is neither here nor there.
The only routes FF came up with involved a long detour to the north to ASKAN, more than half way up the Medoc. If I deleted ASKAN they wouldn’t verify. No doubt in reality I’d have got something shorter, but why not file what you want to fly? Also the (inevitable) VFR bit at the end is very constrained, you have to be under 1000 feet because of Cazaux, and even then there are places you can’t fly with talking to Cazaux.
The instrument instructor I’ve worked with at Arcachon said “just file IFR and ATC will figure it out”. Maybe I’ll try that next time, but the IFR-Y worked perfectly.
Nothing at all wrong with filing IFR Y as you did.
I was sort of pointing out what your instructor said, that it doesn’t seem to matter these days and in filing IFR I you don’t have to make the decision of where change flight rules before the flight.
Just one more suggestion and only a suggestion if you are having problems getting a decent routing on Autorouter or RR, try filing through a BRIA (by telephone). Sometimes it can be very useful for flying within France. We usually use Bordeaux BRIA especially when what we are trying to do is a little different from the norm.
gallois wrote:
Just one more suggestion and only a suggestion if you are having problems getting a decent routing on Autorouter or RR, try filing through a BRIA (by telephone). Sometimes it can be very useful for flying within France. We usually use Bordeaux BRIA especially when what we are trying to do is a little different from the norm.
I had this experience during IFR training and indeed calling them did solve our problem of getting a IFR FPL from LFMD to LFTZ (Cannes to STP) – obviously for training prupose. Eurocomtrol have some rules and although BRIA cannot get rid of them, they have somehow better tools to help on this task.
