What are the things you don't like doing or frustrates you related to aviation? (looking for business ideas)

The problem in France renting from a club would be.
1/.Are you a member of the FFA because the club relies on certain assurances which comes through the FFA and personal insurance and breakdown or delay assistance.
2/.Are you prepared to join the club? Clubs here are similar to syndicates in the UK and can you imagine all members of a syndicate agreeing to lend one of their aircraft to someone who just turns up on the doorstep who is not on the list of insured individuals.
3/ A PPL does not necessarily mean you can fly.So isn’t it sensible that you would have to prove that you can fly the aircraft over your route to the standard.required by.the owner?
A pilot showing a log book with many years experience might only need a couple of circuits, one of lesser experience might need a longer controlled flight. Most instructors will suss out how good you are in minutes.

I think the same would apply in a more commercial aircraft hire company except you probably wouldn’t need to be a member of the FFA or join a club but then you would probably have to pay more to give some profit and some payment would need to be made towards insurance, just like hiring a car.

The question I have to ask is would you lend your aircraft to someone you didn’t know? And even if you did, would you simply hand over the keys?

Charter business is just not comparable e.g. to boats or cars.

An unexperienced guy would survive a car crash or a boat crash but maybe not a plane crash.

So I’d say there’s zero interest from plane owners to facilitate renting.

Anyhow, this is a good thread here and would be interesting if something could be found.

What about fuel? I have a total card, bp card, credit card and still fuel planning is most interesting when flying throughout Europe. But then who flies outside his country??

Renting a plane to somebody you don’t know is a valid business model, involving a risk premium

I guess France is like say Greece: no self fly hire.

But renting is simply horrible unless you are very lucky (some are; I am sure they will be along soon with the name of their country ). The way forward in GA is to share or buy.

In order to earn money one has got to get into commercial aviation.

There is more money floating around there but that doesn’t mean it is easy to perform the classic extraction process: position yourself on the money stream and skim off a percentage There are loads of “routepack generators” for bizjets, down to about €40 for the validated route, wx, etc, and if they could charge €400 they would.

I’ve lost count of the shysters and opportunists who try or have tried to do this. Look at the Myhandling outfit, which is trying to do this with lots of (mainly French, for cultural acceptance reasons) airports. Absolutely zero value to the user, only hassle.

And airlines are probably some of the sh1ttiest customers in existence, after DIY chains and other high volume public-facing traders. In fact if you can sell to the trade you will live 20 years longer than if you sell to the public or to firms that sell to the public Why? Retail is basically horrible. Why? A certain % of people are basically horrible…

However, over time, things often get better. For example 10-20 years ago many airports took only TOTAL or AIR BP or Mastercard or Visa. Today, any CC works in nearly all places. Cash is even better because €100 notes fit in the pump man’s pocket without showing

So I’d say there’s zero interest from plane owners to facilitate renting.

That is generally true for private owners (that said, I rented mine out 2002-2006, with plenty of “fun” which I posted about) but you would be surprised at how many people talk about “my plane” but actually it is long term rented from some guy who doesn’t fly anymore but doesn’t want to sell it. Not C150s, either; I mean SR22, TB20, etc. Not divulging any names

Would be interesting to know what would be the rules of flying commercially with a SEP

In Europe, generally, SE is not allowed for paying passengers whether scheduled or charter. A totally shagged twin is OK because it has 2 motors

Recent exceptions for SE TPs

twins
SE TP

The rules are country specific but in general SEP AOC is possible for A-to-A charter i.e. pleasure flights. “Discovery” is something country specific too. France has other stuff… This is why AOC holders hate Wingly and such – example where the airport is packed with AOC charter ops.

Alpha_Floor wrote:

Why this tedious club checking procedure where you need to show how well you can do the three touch and goes? It doesn’t really de-risk much more than just stick and rudder skills.

The usual unknown renters would just want to do some local sightseeing. I would mainly be interested in their stick and rudder skill so I can be sure they don’t cripple my plane. I have caught 2 – one (with ca 200hours) flew without any feel at all by some unknown numbers – climb at minimum allowed airspeed, followed by first turn at almost 45 degrees bank ,still in climb, at the end a long-long final way below circuit height. Wanted to go a small island with 600m runway, which is OK for Cherokee if you know what you are doing but definitely not for this guy. Another one had almost tailstrike when he wanted to flare the PA-28 “like a cessna”. So no, I don’t trust that all wannabe-renters have good enough stick and rudder skills. Flying through CAS is usually not a really big deal in Estonia. As an owner I would probaly get an e-mail notifiying me of the event and thats it. I don’t rent out to complete strangers, but if somebody from Euroga comes to Estonia and want’s to fly a little, I would probably agree (after doing some circuits first)..

@Peter there is a great difference between the issues I set out and " France being like Greece with no self fly hire". Outside of ULM and F-P most of French flying is self hire.
I have yet to use Myhandling so I will have to accept your word that it is a rip off.
France has Vol découverte which is limited to who can do it, length of flight and the percentage of overall hours that a club can be devoted to it. It used to be called “baptême de l’air”
Then there is the "Vol Partagé " which basically, as has always been everyone pays a share. The pilot included. If 3 people on board the pilot pays 1/3 but the club arranges it and can charge the passengers extra, a bit like through Wingly.
Finally, there is the “Vol d’initiation” which is for someone who thinks they might want to take up flying but this can only be done with an instructor.

I think what frustrates renters is the requirement to join this and join that. Usually this is solved by flying with a club member or an FI. Obviously the other side of the argument is that you have to check the renter out…

I think Myhandling rips off the airport; for the user it is just an extra hassle.

Usually this is solved by flying with a club member or an FI

Not in France. If you want to fly an aeroclub’s planes you have to join. Typically around 100 euros for a year, assuming you already have FFA membership somewhere else. Otherwise you are limited to a discovery flight with an FI which (as I understand it) is limited by regulation to 45 minutes.

Of course if your mate who’s already a member takes you along as a “passenger” that’s another story.

johnh wrote:

Not in France. If you want to fly an aeroclub’s planes you have to join.

I guess you mean you need to join the club to be PIC. If you just want to fly and don’t care about being PIC or not, having a club member with you as PIC should be enough…