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Sent to the hold and cleared for approach before reaching holding fix

It basically picks the shorter course to OLMAV unless already in hold mode.

Antonio
LESB, Spain

Peter wrote:

How about EGKA DCT OKPEM and then just before OKPEM cleared for the ILS (whatever that means to the GTN) via OLMAV.

@Peter, I think that is between pictures #2 and #3, depends on how far you are in relation to OKPEM.

EGTR

Sorry – I am not familiar with the GTN colouring so can’t make sense of it.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Plus the simulator in the examples is broken…..it seems to show track-up.

United Kingdom

GTN is not broken, it just happened to be set that way, but you can change it to N’up and run the sims again, but I am not doing it :)

The magenta line is what it is currently guiding you to fly: current leg.
The thick white line are the guided track to be flown on next legs.
The thin white solid lines are different nav references, like the actual procedure tracks (which does not overlap with guided track at track turns since those are never flown zero radius), a hold, or past legs, or airways.
The thin white dashed lines are the “approximate” guidance legs, like “turn to a heading” or “turn left to intercept a radial” (like the missed approach at LFAT) since actual track will vary depending on turn initiating altitude, GS, wind…
The dashed magenta lines are active guidance in the hold or PT’s before actually entering the hold or the next leg.

Last Edited by Antonio at 04 May 20:12
Antonio
LESB, Spain

Funny thing is that I got something similar yesterday.

RNP 31 approach.

Initially got a descent to 2000ft, as expected. Got sent to EKLEB. And got cleared for RNP 31 before I got there.

I thought that probably means fly to ELTUD (which I asked for originally) via EKLEB. But there is the ambiguity that EKLEB is also a holding fix, which may mean that if you get sent there, you have to enter the hold. But in this case I was “cleared for the approach” before I got there.

But I wanted to make sure. But approaching EKLEB a UK pilot got on the radio reading out a bit of War and Peace… anyway ATC did confirm it was EKLEB ELTUD, no hold.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

@Peter that is pretty normal you were cleared for the approach, that meant that because EKLEB is an IAF you just start your approach from there. No need for a procedure turn providing it was an RNP approach you were carrying out, which it had to be because ATS cleared you for the RNP31.

France

I would imagine they wanted you to do something like this:

ESME, ESMS

I was flying RNP31.

that is pretty normal you were cleared for the approach, that meant that because EKLEB is an IAF you just start your approach from there

That would make sense. Yes indeed EKLEB is an IAF and not just a holding fix.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

the ambiguity that EKLEB is also a holding fix, which may mean that if you get sent there, you have to enter the hold

There is no ambiguity at all. You guys are overthinking the whole of IFR procedures to quite some point. If you have to pick a hold, wherever whenever, you will be told so. If you were cleared for the approach, you are cleared for the approach. No need to ask if and what, just fly the procedure as hopefully you learned.

Dan
ain't the Destination, but the Journey
LSZF, Switzerland
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