Neil_F wrote:
Here’s another one: Newtonards (EGAD)
The threshold is displaced due to a football pitch and a large hill in the undershoot.
Interesting. This is a combination of a displaced threshold and a paved area which is not part of the runway.
I got yelled at at Bielefeld for trying to start my run at the beginning of the displaced threshold – apparently only for use by jets
Peter_Mundy wrote:
apparently only for use by jets
You did not pay for it 
So, coming back to the Coburg case:
First of all, remember this is Germany, and Germany is peculiar about operating surfaces and for example where you are supposed to land where you aren’t…
Here, when it was time for me to depart, I was a little unsure. For some reason, I did not key the mic to ask the (friendly) AFSIO for confirmation on whether I was good to give it full throttle immediately or not. Rather, being the ever so cautious guy I am when dealing AFISOs (and hence, possible BfLs…), I taxied at slow speed all the way to the white line and only then gave it full throttle (in this case, I was very light, in the PA28-235, so I was off after 150 meters, hence the “wasted” bit of runway did not matter much).
When I was safely airborne, the friendly AFISO advised me that what I did was not strictly necessary. He said “in Coburg, it is allowed to start the takeoff run right at the beginning; the only condtion being that you don’t lift off before the actual designated runway starts”.
So the correct answer seems to be b).
(Since I was flying and we were on the radio, he did not give me any more details, like rhyme and verse, obviously, but I don’t doubt that his info was right).
But honestly, I wouln’t have thought that b) is the correct answer. Why not a), then?
And, if b) is the generally correct answer, then what does the differentiation between RESA and displaced threshold in the Newtownards case mean? What changes? In both areas, one is not allowed to land, and one IS allowed to start the takeoff roll. Is the only difference that one is allowed to lift off from a displaced threshold area but not from a RESA?
Here’s another one: Newtonards (EGAD)
The threshold is displaced due to a football pitch and a large hill in the undershoot.
It’s not the same because bosco’s example doesn’t have displaced threshold. His example is simple runway with TODA=TORA=ASDA and RESA is extension of taxiway.
BTW the answer to question is c)
boscomantico wrote:
“in Coburg, it is allowed to start the takeoff run right at the beginning; the only condtion being that you don’t lift off before the actual designated runway starts”
It’s interesting view and maybe very specific to Germany? similar to the other puzzle of takeoff ground roll (before liftoff) being prohibited over opposite displaced threshold, in a similar fashion to landing ground roll (after touchdown) being prohibited over displaced threshold of active runway
What about landing deceleration in these areas for opposite non-active runway QFU? is ground rollout after landing allowed on RESA on opposite runway? is ground rollout after landing allowed on DTCH of opposite runway?
It seems that German BfL/ATC are way too chirurgical on when and where wings/wheels generate lift and when aircraft stay/leave the ground
Here is the fun part, do they allow low pass over RESA on missed approach
What about Touch-and-Go?
After all touch-and-go is a mix of land & takeoff, plus one can decide how much of aircraft weight gets attributed to wheels and wings depending if they kiss the ground or slam 2T on it
For Newtownards the runways details are:
22: TODA 791m LDA 717m
04: TODA 747m LDA 791m
The taxiway from the apron to 22 is quite narrow so I guess that’s why its not part of the “runway” and so only the arrowed part is included in the TODA. I believe that there are rules about the minimum width for a runway on a licenced aerodrome but don’t ask me what they are!
Airborne_Again wrote:
The landing run following the GS is 397 m as the TCH is 40’.
Ah, right, 399m.
Airborne_Again wrote:
Following the PAPI the TCH is as low as 18’ with a landing run of 526 m.
IMO a PAPI that is different than the GS warrants a remark on the approach plate… There is none. <sigh>
Yes, looks better with this additional information… When in sight of the runway, the PAPI, etc and “landing assured”, go below GS to follow PAPI, and it gets much more comfortable than following the GS.
Peter_Mundy wrote:
I got yelled at at Bielefeld for trying to start my run at the beginning of the displaced threshold – apparently only for use by jets
At a guess – it’s a resident ridden airport and thus they try to cut down on the noise issues with the neighbors unless really necessary. Is that written down somewhere or is it required local knowledge?
Peter_Mundy wrote:
I got yelled at at Bielefeld for trying to start my run at the beginning of the displaced threshold – apparently only for use by jets
Where were you supposed to have started the take-off run…?
