Really Peter? They Nice never allowed it? You know this for a fact?
Because reading that report the guy admits himself he did a bad job filling the flight plan, his routing was not correct and he incorrectly thinks it doesn’t matter what is filled.
Also he just accepted what was told to him by FIS. No unable.. request.., no request freq change for zone crossing… and asking what he wanted and negotiation with approach directly. At least not according to his report. I would not have accepted the descent to 500ft from FIS. I would have said unable, and request a different clearance. I also would have filled a flight plan with a routine that the ATC can work with.
Like I said before.. there is this possiblity that some people have problems because what they do is not correct.
The CAS I would expect to be let in
Try it and report.
Nice have never allowed that – e.g. here. That flight was done VFR, with a French FI in the RHS who wasn’t sure about VFR flying there (!), otherwise I would have gone IFR. It was relatively problematic e.g. where ATC provided a great service with all the transits but pretended a mil area did not exist until very shortly before, presumably assuming that the pilot knew that ATC service covers only CAS!
But as I said this is very region specific. One could make 1000 posts about where it worked perfectly. Most people can’t be bothered to type up long reports about trips where they had to use Plan B. Probably not that likely in France, especially in relatively empty Class D there. Then try other countries… I still do produce my detailed trip reports but only if there is something new to talk about.
johnh wrote:
Care to suggest what this may be?
I cannot until you explain how you do it.johnh wrote:
But suppose you’re planning a flight say from Toulouse to Genoa, VFR, and you have to figure out a way through this. Possible, maybe. Practical, I don’t think so.
I did this route in 15min in Foreflight:
The CAS I would expect to be let in. I used VORs and RNAV waypoints that ATC will be familiar with so they’ll understand what my plan is and know how to handle me. The restricted areas are active non-continiously so unless I see a NOTAM before flight I should be good otherwise I’d expect ATC to help out.
LFBO EB (LFBO) EA (LFBO) EN (LFBO) OCWOF FJR MTG MRM LUC CNM AZR USANO ABN SAVONA (MJW2) (LIMJ) COGOLETO (MJW1) (LIMJ) LIMJ
Norwich to Annecy to Venice to Deauville to Norwich all VFR to keep the memsab happy with the view and on the way back to have 8 knots headwind at 3000 not 55 knots at 150
All made incredibly easy with SkyDemon and no more than fifteen minutes planning per sector.
But nothing beats IFR with a 50 knot tailer.
I’m with hazek here. I have an IR and certainly prefer to make trips IFR for all the reasons stated in this thread but I also (for various reasons) regularly do longer trips VFR, e.g. Uppsala – Friedrichshafen, and it really is no big issue ATC and airspace-wise. (The weather is the big issue.) You can’t rely on getting handovers from ATC but with tools like SkyDemon it is easy to find the next frequency.
I see no changes in ATC practice over that time. Also I would not expect to see any; GA volume is slowly declining, and ATC exists mostly for a) ICAO obligations (FIS) and b) airliners.
The airspaces and charts have also not changed significantly. Take a look. Some significant changes in specific spots but little overall change in Europe.
I still fly VFR at times, outside the UK.
Peter wrote:
Of course VFR works; it’s just that IFR is usually a lot smoother.
I think no one claimed, that IFR isn’t easier long distance internationally. However reading some of the posts one could get the (wrong) impression, that flying VFR instead is close to impossible 
Peter wrote:
I flew VFR all the way to Crete before I got the IR
How long ago is that, 20 years? Maybe some things changed for the better in the meantime 
That doesn’t mean that one shouldn’t be prepared for not getting the clearance (I have a hard time trying to remember a single case where that happened), but don’t we need to be prepared for all kinds of unexpected things when flying anyway?
This stuff is highly country- and region-dependent.
You could fly in France all your life and never get denied, if you pick the right part.
I flew VFR all the way to Crete before I got the IR, so I know how it works. VFR is a great tool for a quick and dirty flight, which is what the vast majority of people do. It is also very useful for hacking the Eurocontrol route validation software Of course VFR works; it’s just that IFR is usually a lot smoother.
172driver wrote:
but I really don’t understand the drama some here make it sound like.
Same here. In fact flying VFR long distances in Europe in my experience is (or can be) like flying IFR in higher altitude (and I did fly both…). “…RADAR,D-E… Flightlevel 120, inbound waypoint…” And yes, it does work internationally also. That doesn’t mean that one shouldn’t be prepared for not getting the clearance (I have a hard time trying to remember a single case where that happened), but don’t we need to be prepared for all kinds of unexpected things when flying anyway?
