Possible Jepp chart integration with SkyDemon

Remember the thread is about a request for people interested in getting SD and Jepp to integrate, to lobby Jepp.

I’m a member of PPL/IR and having seen the discussions can assure everyone that this has been led by members rather than SD or Jepp.

This forum (EuroGA) is also a key stakeholder hence why the OP posted on here.

The ‘standard fitment’ for a club PA28 these days is a GNS430

Indeed, lot have GNS or even GTN but many are useless for GPS approach (the moment you start checking NAV database updates, quality of install and AFM paperwork), I can bolt the same GNS430 non WAAS in a Cub or Microlight for 1500£ and fly IFR approaches

Most these “PA28 clubs” gets very nervous when you take one of “IFR aircraft” and fly airways IFR on it on a flight plan, you are drawing too much unwanted attention

Peter wrote:

Yes; I have a panel mounted GPS, but the vast majority of SD users are VFR-only, and they don’t.

I would say they do. Most newer airplanes have some glass with GPS. Still SD (or similar) is used because it’s much easier to use and has vastly more practical options. The option to sit in the couch in the evening and plan the route on a pad or PC is hard to beat with panel mount for example. Also after a flight, looking at the log on the map is an important feature. It’s all this other stuff that makes panel mounted glass/GPS redundant. No one needs the glass/GPS, but everyone thinks it’s a must because it rises the value of the plane, at least that’s the thought.

marioair wrote:

I’m a member of PPL/IR and having seen the discussions can assure everyone that this has been led by members rather than SD or Jepp.

When I started flying (30 years ago), Jepp was THE thing. Or at least that is how I remember it (maybe there were another company as well?), all paper back then. Over the years Jepp has dwindled and is mostly a thing for the age 60 and up. Maybe I’m wrong, but it would be interesting to know the average age of persons at this PPL/IR forum. For SD to invest in this for nostalgic reason is pretty stupid IMO.

Ibra wrote:

Indeed, lot have GNS or even GTN but many are useless for GPS approach (the moment you start checking NAV database updates, quality of install and AFM paperwork), I can bolt the same GNS430 non WAAS in a Cub or Microlight for 1500£ and fly IFR approaches

But that is no problem to an IR(R) holder. Nearly all approaches flown by a IR(R) holder are radar-vectored ILS approaches, and very few GA-useable airports have an RNP approach and no ILS (only Shoreham springs to mind – the RNPs at non-ATC airports are almost useless). The pilots don’t need to touch the approach features of the GPS box for this use case, and of course clubs don’t keep the databases up to date. No-one gives a monkeys about the AFM paperwork either, because no-one is checking.

I certainly know how to load and fly a GPS approach on both the GNS430 we used to have and the GTN650 we now have, but I’ve never loaded and flown one other than for ‘practice’ in VMC.

Ibra wrote:

Most these “PA28 clubs” gets very nervous when you take one of “IFR aircraft” and fly airways IFR on it on a flight plan, you are drawing too much unwanted attention

That’s on you as the pilot. If the aircraft is legal for IFR in Class A and you file and fly, no problem. As PIC it’s your responsibility to ensure it is legal and, in the context of your hire relationship with the aircraft owner/operator, for you to ensure that they’re ok with that use of it – or not and deal with them when they find out you went against their wishes. I don’t see the problem here.

LeSving wrote:

Over the years Jepp has dwindled and is mostly a thing for the age 60 and up.

I don’t know – it still seems to have quite a lot of private users but maybe it is fading out over time. I would never pay for it myself and I don’t particularly like their plate design. I’m totally happy with UK AIP plates which I can access and print for free, and from time to time I have looked at those published by other CAAs and don’t think I’d have a problem, even if I was legal to use them.

I’m definitely in favour of a paper plate. An instrument approach, particularly in IMC and without an autopilot, is a high workload environment and I don’t want to be messing around with a tablet to look up the stuff I need to know. It’s unwieldy, buttons need to be pressed, if you touch the screen accidentally undesired stuff happens, it’s delicate and can’t be shoved down the side of the seat, etc.

I find it ironic in terms of certification requirements that such a high bar is set for using any sort of GPS for IFR navigation, yet on the non-paper provision of essential documentation an attitude of “an iPad will always be fine” is generally agreed to meet that previously-mentioned regulation about assuring reliability.

If you fly IFR every day and to lots of random airports then I can see the logic of a tablet to save on Laser toner and the universal presentation of Jepp. But for the likes of me, who probably prints no more than a dozen approach plates a year, it’s an expensive solution looking for a problem.

Jepp will never license their charts to any app which runs on android.

They told me that at a seminar. Too easy to bootleg android apps. See the Garmin Pilot – Android. GP is also without Jepp data if on android.

So SD would be able to make Jepp data available to much less than 50% of its customers.

They probably don’t know this.

Jeppesen also publish VFR airport plates (they bought the Bottlang VFR plate business some time around 2008)

Jeppesen bought Bottlang much earlier than 2008. Wikipedia says it was in the 80s. I guess that in 2008, they (Jeppesen) eventually dropped the Bottlang name for the product.

@peter I don’t believe the Android/IOS issue was raised as an issue. Plus you can already get Jepp charts via Navigraph if you wanted to do anything dodgy.

Interestingly foreglight have stated they won’t support Android. So from a market penetration penetration perspective it leaves “Android IFR” pilots with even less choice.

Having had another play with FF recently, the VFR Charting is still what let’s ot down. IMHO

Navigraph come via an app which needs online connectivity, so you have to print them off to fly with, and there are no practical printing solutions for the Ipad.