Seba wrote:
12
Alright, then it seems like, as always, things are simpler than one imagines them to be by just reading regulations and talking to instructors.
The last bit always makes me chuckle a bit… I love the French Aeroclub system as it massively helps in democratising the access to flight. There is pretty much a form of flying that is accessible, also financially to everyone. Goal achieved. Touring, probably not so much, you are very likely to die if you fly more than 200NM, crossing an international border you will definitely die, then get arrested and tried ;-) I am kidding of course but the reality is, 90pct of instructors will never have crossed an international bordering a light aircraft. Too much flying to be done in France, (where everyone speaks French) And you can even do the islands in the Med or the Atlantic and never leave France.
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
Too much flying to be done in France
That’s too true. I really wonder every time I fly from Germany to Spain and back just how big France is, in particular when flying diagonally over the country. That impression even increases, because I climb / descend either over Germany or Spain, and just boring straight and level flight over all that distance.
…and you forgot the French Alps. So you really have everything challenging right there in France…
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
The last bit always makes me chuckle a bit… I love the French Aeroclub system as it massively helps in democratising the access to flight. There is pretty much a form of flying that is accessible, also financially to everyone. Goal achieved. Touring, probably not so much, you are very likely to die if you fly more than 200NM, crossing an international border you will definitely die, then get arrested and tried ;-) I am kidding of course but the reality is, 90pct of instructors will never have crossed an international bordering a light aircraft. Too much flying to be done in France, (where everyone speaks French) And you can even do the islands in the Med or the Atlantic and never leave France.
Definitely agree. Most of what I know about international and medium/long distance flight I had to learn on my own, by reading stuff online and watching youtube videos. On the other hand, given that our aeroclub is basically on the border with Germany, most people at least have explored big parts of the Rhine area on the German side so there is always someone I can ask for advice, but it is by no means something people do often so they are not exactly expert.
A good thing though is that the club organizes a yearly trip to LIPV with most of the available planes, which among other things has the goal of familiarizing people with tricky topics like international flight and flying over/in the alps.
Seba wrote:
f I file a direct route and then fly a heading going say 90 degrees to the east
In VFR a DCT is merely a separator between 2 points. They don’t expect nor demand a straight line.
You can also amend your EET at the FIS border and your ETA from the air.
Just activate shortly after airborne, and speak with ATC. They are here to help.
Hi!
Last summer I flew around Denmark, the crossing from Sweden to Denmark was no problem, I activated the flight plan after taking off from the local airport.
On the return I filed a VFR flight plan from an airport on the Danish side, with a destination on the Swedish side, so that I met the rules for crossing the border, with a defined crossing point.
I thought I could activate the flight plan when I was over the Danish airport when it was time to cross, after some aerial sightseeing.
But Danish ATC insisted that I could not activate the plan unless I landed at the filed airport, I could not activate it in the air.
I had never planned that, so I then discovered that the airport I used was heavily PPR.
After a proper scolding, ATC agreed to activate the plane and I crossed.
What should I have done differently here? I’ve never had a problem activating a flight plan in the air before, mind you I was above the airport but had not technically taken off from it.
Let‘s put it the other way ’round: if you want to fly VFR from A to B and back to A, but not land at B, why file two separate flightplans? Just file one only. It is not forbidden to file flightplans with identical ADEP and ADES. Just remember that strictly speaking, airports shall not be filed as route waypoints in ATS flightplans. Just pick a waypoint close by.
It’s perfectly ok to file two plans in such situation and activate second plan after overflying destination airport of the first plan.
boscomantico wrote:
Let‘s put it the other way ’round: if you want to fly VFR from A to B and back to A, but not land at B, why file two separate flightplans? Just file one only. It is not forbidden to file flightplans with identical ADEP and ADES. Just remember that strictly speaking, airports shall not be filed as route waypoints in ATS flightplans. Just pick a waypoint close by.
I would agree with that.
It doesn´t make sense to file 2 separate FPLs if you don´t intend to make a full stop landing. You should file only 1 FPL, as @boscomatico correctly says, when there is not intention to do a full stop landing. Even if you want to do touch and goes, 1 FPL would suffice.
You can still file the FPL with two FIR crossing time details, and same DEP and ARR airport.
Your departure airport was in Sweden and your Destination airport was in Sweden, since you never even landed at the Danish PPR airport.
ATC were following sensible regulations in this case, and still managed to make an exemption.
Emir wrote:
It’s perfectly ok to file two plans in such situation and activate second plan after overflying destination airport of the first plan.
Yes, that makes sense, but Swedish ATC would also refuse. I have firsthand experience of a similar situation. (Except I did intend to make a TGL at the first destination airport but because of an extended hold on approach, I skipped that.) ATC refused to open my return flight plan so instead I had to divert to my return airport while still on the outbound flight plan!
What I know is that ATC won’t accept that you “file” an flight plan in the air if you want to cross borders.
I tried when I flew around Sweden/Helsingborg and wanted to fly over to Denmark for a short trip and back.
You have to file it on the “ground” or at least with Fore flight or similar and then you can activate it in the air.
