This thread is the reason why I do almost all of my international flying IFR – it’s so much easier…
Long bimble views at 1000agl are not worth some hassle 
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I like when ATC says cleared to follow the coast 
Peter wrote:
France uses “radar contact” to mean a clearance Occassionally they say “proceed”.
Or “transit approuvé” (transit approved). I get that a lot from Bâle Information, when contacting them OCAS and with a destination OCAS, and a route OCAS. To this date I still don’t understand the meaning of that phrase.
Further to the original question, if I call them below their TMA and ask to climb, when they answer „climb FL60“ or so I take that as clearance to enter their airspace D from below. You won’t hear an explicit „cleared to enter CAS“.
Peter wrote:
you must have the magic words “cleared to xxxx”. And then once in CAS you normally get “radar control service” which you must also read back.
Or not…
The UK is indeed the odd one out in Europe: After a few years break from flying in the UK, it is somewhat disconcerting on approaching a wall of class D/C ahead to hear on first contact “remain outside controlled airspace” when that is the very reason you are talking to them… and wrt to readback “radar control service” having re-called them again and finally obtained the clearance about 1NM from the boundary, they will usually hint by saying “confirm radar control service”…
On coming back you then find yourself actually asking a French FIS “Confirm cleared to enter the TMA” at which they answer in a confused tone " err,,,mais oui?!?!?!"…
Regards, SD..
Indeed; my experience too
However, you can’t assume French ATC have also cleared you through some restricted area further down. Those remain your responsibility; you don’t get transit just by reading out a proposed route (passing through one of these) and ATC saying nothing.
An interesting Q might be: how does the French “implied” system work, while the UK one has to be so rigid? Is it much lower traffic density in French CAS, once away from the large cities?
Agreed… but that is RESTRICTED airspace, which is, well, restricted….and not controlled airspace by the FIS controller you are talking to… so if ACTIVE (and they will tell you) then you need a permission to enter it. This to me is waaay more logical than UK Danger areas situation, but that maybe is a different thread..
Yeah, but one can see the trap for the unwary… This is the other side of being “casual” about clearances. ATC could bite you. It’s like me getting (attempted) busted by the DGAC in 2003, while on a radar service, clipping a power station ZIT. ATC were quite relaxed then too… asked for the pilot name, etc Said nothing about the ZIT – all the way to the UK, and then 5 months later, guess what happens? I have written about this previously.
I suspect your little ZIT experience has had an effect here on the ATC side.
I have on at least 3 occasions been actively warned about ZITs by FIS, Two I recall when avoiding weather and flying towards them below their max altitude, and one in a friends aeroplane in a cruise decent from FL nosebleed where the decent to destination would have had us clip the ZIT – And I remember this because on each occasion it was an apt reminder to me that it was there.
Regards, SD..
I enjoy those implicit clearances regularly. Many times the FIS and APP frequencies are joined, so it really is simple.
But I would say stay cautious. At least one pilot was « sued » for entering Lyon TMA while on freq with Lyon FIS with an implicit clearance. It really depends on who holds the mike. Some like to say Approved even in Class G, others are more … precise in their terms.
Better safe than sorry. Especially with the really busy TMA like Nice, Lyon, etc… Others like Brest, Deauville etc… are usually more laid-back
Peter wrote:
Indeed; my experience tooHowever, you can’t assume French ATC have also cleared you through some restricted area further down. Those remain your responsibility; you don’t get transit just by reading out a proposed route (passing through one of these) and ATC saying nothing.
My experience with French ATC is that they are quick to point out the active restricted areas on route – in one case, I didn’t have a clue which one they were referring to because they were referring it to by name rather than LFRxxx so instead of wasting time trying to find it and accidentally fly through it, I asked for a heading to avoid; they then steered me around it. This was under the control of Nice Approach, IIRC. Bale, Strasbourg and Lyon Approach have also been similarly accommodating….
