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Practice approaches - getting harder (and pre-booking)?

Just wow. Even the whole idea of “booking” an approach. You know how it works in FAA land, right? You call approach 20 miles out and say “I’d like a practice ILS”. “Sure,” they say, and start giving you vectors etc. Done.

I don’t know how bad it is in France, only that nearest airports with usable approaches of any kind are an hours flying away from here (you can forget LFMN, and LFMD’s approaches have an MDA of 2000 feet which is also nuts).

Sadly, keeping an IR current in Europe seems essentially impossible. You have got to REALLY want to do it.

LFMD, France

Sadly, keeping an IR current in Europe seems essentially impossible.

Not an issue to keep current if you are using an IR to land somewhere (or if your aircraft is based at an IFR aerodrome), in July, I had 12 IFR approaches logged only one of them was “circular A-to-A training” to Deauville…

Last Edited by Ibra at 03 Sep 12:02
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

EASA IRs not so much,but FAA IRs sure are difficult to maitain here.

Although it depends where. The UK certainly is dificult. Cote d‘Azur as well. Frankfurt area also rather terrible.

Generally, France doesn‘t have these problems. I guess it‘s mostly on the channel coast, which gets all these UK schools, hence these airports adapt.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 03 Sep 12:04
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

keeping an IR current in Europe seems essentially impossible. You have got to REALLY want to do it.

Big topic

Yes; to enjoy flying here you need to focus on getting value out of it. There is just too much “ground hassle”. Flying itself is normally OK.

There is no problem keeing the FAA IR 6/6 currency, if you fly regularly at all. It often amazes me how little a lot of IR holders fly. There is a lot of “old-timers with an IR”, out there, particularly active in certain organisations, who are in the 30hrs/year range. I fly around once a week. I don’t fly more often because I would then not enjoy it, but I try to make every flight count in some way. For the 6/6 currency I need to shoot an approach only once a month. I normally exceed that by a factor of several times. I exceed it comfortably because I believe one should practice approaches, both manual and autopilot; the latter is especially crucial because a) in a real bad situation you won’t be hand-flying and b) to regularly test the system.

The case where the 6/6 can be a hassle is if your base doesn’t have approaches and there are none nearby, and there is where Euro IR holders tell me they are happier because they need to only “survive” the annual test, without any need for currency. The 61.75+FAA IR holders still need to do the 6/6 if they want to fly abroad.

If somebody flies only once every few weeks, their currency, especially instrument currency, will be poor. OK; many do that, with the UK average being 20-30hrs a year, and many being way below that average, and some “aeroclub flying” in certain other countries being privately reported as 5-10hrs (although ~none of those being IR holders). One can risk-compensate by flying only on CAVOK days.

In the UK it is easy because if you fly abroad (and that is where most value is, arguably) your first stop has to have C+I and usually these have an approach, so you shoot that. That is also why LPV, now de facto banned by Brussels here, is non critical for me, since most of these have an ILS or GPS/LNAV; another story. If I had to shoot 6 × LPV I would have trouble.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I can’t comment on the FAA currency rules but flying 12 or 20 IFR approaches in France is very easy.
I have 6 RNP approaches and 1 ILS within 15 minutes flying from here.
Make it 30 minutes and I have a further 3 ILS approaches and another 4 RNP.
I can fly the Bordeaux Mérignac ILS and request a direct to Bordeaux Leognan Saucat (no IAP) without landing and I have never paid a fee.
AFAIK most regions of France are similarly equipped.
Down the Cote D’Azur you have several IAPs on Corsica not a great distance.
When I did some difference training there IIRC we used to use the military base at Hyeres for IAPs and I can’t remember whether Le Castellet and Cuers still have IAPs. As I say I don’t know the details of what is needed for an FAA licence but it is pretty simple to revalidate my EASA MEP, MEIR and my SEIR each year.
The bigger problem is getting hold of a plane.

France

Just book an arrival and keep going missed…..

Pig
If only I’d known that….
EGSH. Norwich. , United Kingdom

Down the Cote D’Azur you have several IAPs on Corsica not a great distance.
When I did some difference training there IIRC we used to use the military base at Hyeres for IAPs and I can’t remember whether Le Castellet and Cuers still have IAPs. As I say I don’t know the details of what is needed for an FAA licence but it is pretty simple to revalidate

Calvi (closest) is 102nm from LFMD – an hour in a typical trainer, and all over water, not very comfy. Avignon is similar.

Cuers doesn’t have anything, Le Castelet has an RNP with MDA of ~1000 AGL. Hyères has an ILS and an RNP, though I guess you have to ask very nicely to get to use it.

LFMD, France

In that situation, you just need to go somewhere every 6 months (or is there a hack where you go every 12 months, with another pilot – @ncyankee will know) and shoot 6 approaches. It should take only an hour or so.

No worse than maintaining Euro and FAA medicals, which can easily be a day’s worth of driving.

This is all part of working around the various factors in GA. Airfield politics (dictates hangarage, maint options, etc), A&P/IA availability (if none, you can’t be N-reg), etc. You would have similar fun keeping a Euro-reg in the US permanently, even if you would be a masochist to do that

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I do practice approaches at my airport and a nearby one that is 19 NM away. 6 approaches with a safety pilot takes me about an hour and a half. The airport nearby that I use has two RNAV (GPS) approaches (aka RNP) with LPV minimums of 200 DH for runway 6 and 250 DH for runway 24. They are back to back T designs with a hold IAF in the center. The missed approach hold is the entry for the IAP for the opposite runway, so I do 4 approaches, 2 to runway 6 and 2 to runway 24 alternating between runways. Then I head back and do an ILS to runway 2 at my home drome, do a missed approach and back for a localizer approach to the same runway, usually ending with a CTL. Both airports do not have a tower and I just have a safety pilot. The safety pilot only needs to be rated with at least a private pilot in a single engine land and have a current medical.. I don’t involve ATC when it is VFR, although I monitor their frequency. The safety pilot is the lookout for traffic and we coordinate each approach with any traffic in the pattern.

KUZA, United States

Cuers doesn’t have anything, Le Castelet has an RNP with MDA of ~1000 AGL. Hyères has an ILS and an RNP, though I guess you have to ask very nicely to get to use it.

Can’t you fly IFR to La Mole without landing? with the site qualification you can land but I don’t recall that applies to instrument approach followed by going missed (they don’t accept mountain rating)

Last Edited by Ibra at 05 Sep 08:15
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom
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