Capitaine wrote:
@Ibra in theory you could go gliding in most GA types with a bit of power to improve the ‘glide ratio’
You can make the gradient positive in some instances. We caught some decent wave in the Auster one time, and were climbing at 1,000 fpm with the engine almost pulled back to idle. Wasn’t brave enough to actually shut it down :-)
etn wrote:
let me know and I’d be happy to take you up for a ride!
Thank you @etn
I did see your post in the family plane thread which answered the question too 
I learnt on a DR.221 then flew a DR.250 shortly after: the 250 was much harder on the controls due to increased cruise speed, but I think it was ok at lower speeds too. This website listing DR.250s actually shows a lot of homebuilt derivatives. There’s an anecdote that production was stopped early after a high profile crash (aerobatics with 4 on board), but I never found a reference for this.
Ibra wrote:
I was tempted to switch it’s engine OFF on wave encounter along the ridges in Wales
@Ibra in theory you could go gliding in most GA types with a bit of power to improve the ‘glide ratio’. I’d like to try one day but have basically zero gliding experience.
@Capitaine Hello Capitaine, sorry for my late answer – I didn’t “watch” this thread and was unaware of your question until today.
The DR253 is indeed the next model after the 250, featuring a nosewheel (hence the 3 in 253), a 10cm larger cockpit, an O360, 240l of fuel, and a longer/higher fuselage. The undercarriage is somewhat higher. The flying club at my home base has a DR400, which indeed seems a bit like a dwarf next to the 253!
For me too, the DR250 is the epitome of Robin aircraft. I did my PPL on one and have many hours. I cannot really compare the two, as 10 years went by from my last flight in the 250 to my acquisition of the 253. One thing I remember about that particular 250 was that the controls felt awkwardly “mushy” at downwind speed (140km/h) after coming from cruise (250km/h). I don’t really feel this in the 253. There is a difference for sure, but it does not feel awkward. I have to say, though, that the 250 I flew was a homebuilt: I don’t know how much it differed from factory-build 250’s. I might also have grown more insensitive to it with experience. Who knows.
If I remember correctly, that particular DR250 cruised at 250km/h IAS at 5000ft and 2500rpm. I never reach that with the 253. Here again, many causes may exist, the most probable one being my failing memory on that 250km/h number :) others being IAS and RPM gauges calibration, etc. My 253 also has many antennas, the fabric cover is not that new anymore, plus the added drag of the 3rd wheel and the steps (which only the DR253 and DR500 have) certainly cost a few knots.
I have to admit I never flew a DR400-180 (or if I did, I don’t really remember) but I’d expect both to fly similar, with performance in the same ball park, provided you have the same prop and wing tanks (more below on that). Per the manual, both have a MTOW of 1100kg. My bird has an empty weight of 640kg. With the DR300/400, Robin went back to the DR250 fuselage to save costs. The DR253 was the high-end version back in the days, and did not sell too well for that reason. The DR300, which later evolved into the DR400, was the “cost down” variant.
The wing tank story: If I believe the “Avions Robin” (Xavier Massé) and “La Saga Robin” (François Besse) books, the wing profile of the DR300/400 without wing tanks has been modified to improve stall characteristics at the expense of cruise speed. Wing profile of “Long range” (i.e. with wing tanks) versions has been kept identical to the DR200 series, in order to re-use tooling. The DR300-180 is said to be the fastest of all 3-gear Robins of all due to a smaller wetted area. To me, the 253 has more style, though. I also value the “older & and more rare” aspects vs the DR300/400.
I hope I answered your questions. If you happen to fly by EDQN, let me know and I’d be happy to take you up for a ride!
@etn the DR.253 is a DR.250 with bigger cockpit, O360, and nosewheel..? I’ve never seen one. How does it compare to a DR.400/180 for space, payload and speed? For me the DR.250 was the highpoint of Robin production, but the DR.253 might be a sweet spot for performance before commercial pressures took precedence over aerodynamics.
That’s an outrageous list, Capitaine
I’ve seen most / all of those things done in the rental or syndicate scene. When I was renting mine out 2002-2006, one guy (an instructor!) used to fiddle the Shadin fuel totaliser; I caught him because he didn’t know the EDM700 records flight data and his fuel burn was impossible for the flight duration.
The vouchers published in the UK mags seem popular enough and I used to buy the Air Shampoo vouchers for Germany.
Many of the points you mention are the reason I decided to own my aircraft.
I’m certainly not quids in vs renting for the amount I fly per year. But I know that no one did something detrimental to the airplane (such as taking off without enough warm up, or not reporting a hard landing, etc.) to which I, or anyone else unsuspecting, could fell victim.
I have to say I like the landing vouchers idea. It’s an incentive to discover new places. The airfields issuing vouchers are doing it for a reason, increasing traffic or otherwise. It’s part of the game. They are getting something out of the deal.
Good luck with landing on a German airfield when the tower isn’t manned :) But I have to confess I did my share of that when I was still living in France. Here again, part of the game.
Capitaine wrote:
Redline the engine in cruise
That will make an hour on tach more expensive. Most of the rst will get you banned.
That is an interesting list (thanks for sharing LOL )
Capitaine wrote:
Redline the engine in cruise
I used to rent C182 dry, I would not do that: it was priced on engine TACH !!
I feel guilty of flying using 2100rpm on LOP WOT at 6kft-8kft, best bang for the bucks even if those O470 are nightmare to lean…once, I was tempted to switch it’s engine OFF on wave encounter along the ridges in Wales but I can’t feather the propeller
I must confess that we will always try and fit Leer Papenburg or Calais into the return leg as this saves €1 per litre as compared to home base. We rent dry so it is in our interest.
