I am flying to Toussus LFPN this weekend, from North Weald EGSX, via Le Touquet LFAT or Rouen LFOP, in a DA40NG, and have a couple of questions in case I decide / have to fly in IMC (Obv I have an IR and plane is IFR certified)
- Can I fly IMC OCAS in France ? (Assuming yes) / Is it easy to switch IFR en route if necessary (on a VFR flight plan) ? (Asking because airspace is low in paris, so while in VMC I can keep below, in IMC I would need to fly above)
- How likely is it that I get a routing with not a ton of overhead from LFAT / LFOP into LPFN ? Autorouter shows a couple of solutions with circa 100% overhead which is a bit much since I won’t have a ton of extra time before Airfield closing (trying to get on Friday instead of Saturday morning)
Thanks!
OT, but I would carefully check all the restrictions that are in place, with the Euro final coming up, both on LFPL and LFFF…
OT, but I would carefully check all the restrictions that are in place, with the Euro final coming up, both on LFPL and LFFF…
Yes, haven’t managed to get them on the phone yet (but tried), but so far found:
1) TWR ops are earlier than AIS (notamed closing at 1930, while AIS would imply 2030) – this is important to me as non based can only use in ATS time
2) Restricted area (topic here – shouldn’t affect much)
3) Y and Z departures / arrivals (respectively?) prohibited.
Re IFR OCAS in France: yes, it is not forbidden in France (as in Germany / Switzerland). But there is a rule that cruise flight under IFR is not allowed below 3000 feet MSL. AIP ENR 1.3 has it. So, switching to IFR when OCAS is no problem; getting access to CAS under IFR (it’s class A near Paris) would be more tedious, I’m afraid.
Minimum overflight of the Paris TMA is FL200. That is both per airspace regulation and actually implemented; French ATC is totally inflexible on that (many many times I have tried; in fact almost every time I flyin the SE direction I end up with the same as-filed detour around Paris – example1 example2 ).
You can fly IFR in France in Class G but ATC will say you will be OCAS and will ask you to confirm that is OK. I always say Yes because it means nothing and the shortcut is always good. There is no GA traffic in France at any significant “IFR” level, and most of the sub-FL120 “CAS” is Class E in which anybody can be VFR and non-radio! But as I say there is nobody there. Virtually all GA there is very low level; below 2000ft.
Elsewhere in France, shortcuts are common especially if you ask. They have good ATC and a totally joined-up system.
There is a more general thing in the France-to-UK transition, which is easier at/above FL100 or so (used to be FL120 for many years) because below that, you would not be talking to Paris Control. You would talking to say Lille, and they were not allowed to hand you over to London Control. They handed you over to “London 124.6” which is of course London Info and your IFR clearance was quietly binned. This caused many CAS busts when entering the UK, by foreigners who didn’t know the subtlety. The situation has gradually improved and it may now work even at FL080… This is all related to a shortage of airways in the area – see this
Noe wrote:
I am flying to Toussus LFPN this weekend, from North Weald EGSX, via Le Touquet LFAT or Rouen LFOP, in a DA40NG, and have a couple of questions in case I decide / have to fly in IMC (Obv I have an IR and plane is IFR certified)- Can I fly IMC OCAS in France ? (Assuming yes) / Is it easy to switch IFR en route if necessary (on a VFR flight plan) ? (Asking because airspace is low in paris, so while in VMC I can keep below, in IMC I would need to fly above)
- How likely is it that I get a routing with not a ton of overhead from LFAT / LFOP into LPFN ? Autorouter shows a couple of solutions with circa 100% overhead which is a bit much since I won’t have a ton of extra time before Airfield closing (trying to get on Friday instead of Saturday morning)
I have never flown from LFAT to LFPN , but I have flown LFOP-LFPN a few times (and LFAT-LFPT, my milk run, of course), but I still have a pretty good idea of what you wan expect.
From Le Touquet IFR, you will get a departure to ABB and need to route to BOBSA for the STAR. Something like
LFAT N0130F070 ABB1Y ABB R50 DPE H20 BOBSA BOBSA5T LFPN
Chances is that you will get DCT DPE shortly after the initial portion of the SID.
Once you are in the general vicinity of ROU, traffic permitting you can expect some significant shortcuts, depending on runway in use.
If RWY 07L is in use, you can expect (or request – don’t be shy) EVX – EPR for the VOR 07L approach, or EVX – PN406 for the RNAV 07L approach.
If RWY 25R is in use, you can expect or request EVX – TSU, then at 4000’ outbound on the TSU R071 to 11 DME of TN and thence right turn to heading 290° to intercept the localiser 25R. That is the BEST approach to Toussus you can possibly hope for if the weather is good. Passengers on the left hand side will have a great view of Paris outbound, and inbound it will be the RHS passengers’ turn. Coming from that general area I have never gotten the INA ODILO3X that takes you on a wide berth around Orly to the South, but you need to plan your fuel for that possibility.
Merci aviathor, that’s exactly the kind of info I wanted. Sadly if there is a nice view there won’t be any passengers.
On departure (to Nimes) I haven’t decided if I fly IFR or not but I’ll try to get one with a nice view for my 87 year old grandmother I’m picking up!
Aviator, everything went exactly as you mentioned. It seemed prophetic even! Only difference was TSU 072 and not 71! Having written what you had mentioned on an approach plate and prepared a bit made it super easy, the only things left unknown were frequencies (there were a lot of changes, I think Paris → Orly departures → Orly approach → villacoublay approach → toussus).
View was amazing, thanks for the advice. This will be the only INstrument approach can think of ill be sad if weather is IMC during the procedure !
Photos attached, taken by me so nothing amazing as still had to focus!
Absolutely amazing. I am looking forward to the Paris fly-in. It may be worth having a “camera operator” 
Here’s the track
