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FAA IPC exam : where to take it in Europe? (and exact 61.3 interpretation?)

Peter wrote:

61.75 needs a BFR

That is understood.
The q is: with a current FAA Flight Review, does the SEP(L) rating on the EASA license need to be valid, or not. IOW, does one need both a FAA Flight Review and an EASA one, or just the FAA one?

tmo
EPKP - Kraków, Poland

Answer probably here. The license needs to be valid, only.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

@peter is correct (as always :-))
The 61.75 FAA Pilot Certificate is a piggy back on the EASA licence. It is only valid with a valid EASA Licence and requires no extra testing except a BFR. This includes the EASA IR priviledges.

LFLY, France

I am far from always right but I do use the Search box

There are various strange things around the way a 61.75 license can give you things which the underlying license does not, in scenarios where EASA requires a rating for the particular type but where the FAA does not – more here.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Ibra wrote:

My FAA61.75 PPL number no longer match my EASA PPL, so this is the arrangement I have now French EASA PPL and UK CAA PPL (and even post-Jan UK NPPL), I am still waiting for someone “very smart” to tell us that does not work that way “as you need an FAA PPL to fly N-reg across borders”

Why post-Jan for the UK NPPL?

A US pilot certificate is needed to fly a US-registered aircraft across a border if the aircraft goes outside the territory of any state, eg Cherbourg–Bournemouth.

§61.3 Requirement for certificates, ratings, and authorizations.

(a) Required pilot certificate for operating a civil aircraft of the
United States. No person may serve as a required pilot flight
crewmember of a civil aircraft of the United States, unless that
person:

(1) Has in the person’s physical possession or readily accessible in
the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate
or authorization—

(vii) When operating an aircraft within a foreign country, a pilot
license issued by that country may be used.


Emphasis added.

Interpretation given on 09 Feb 2015 to Luc Audoore, CAE Aviation, by Mark W Bury, Assistant Chief Counsel for Regulations:

You have asked whether “within a foreign country” refers to the legal borders of a country
(i.e. landmass and territorial waters) or the Flight Information Region that would include the
sea outside the territmial waters.

The FAA is required to act consistently with U.S. obligations under international
agreements. 49 U.S.C. § 40105 (b). The Chicago Convention uses the term “State” rather
than “country” when addressing a contracting State’s responsibilities. Under Article 2 of the
Chicago Convention, a State’s territory is "deemed to be the land areas and territorial waters
adjacent thereto under the sovereignty, suzerainty, protection, or mandate of such State." As
such, the FAA considers operation “within a foreign country” to be operation within the
territory of a State. Although a country may be responsible for providing navigation services
outside its territory, the FAA would not consider operations of a U.S-registered airplane in
those areas to be an operation “within that country” for the purpose of § 61.3. Thus, the
operation described in your request would require the pilot to hold a pilot certificate issued
by the FAA.

London, United Kingdom

Qalupalik wrote:

Why post-Jan for the UK NPPL?

Just for Annex 1/2 vs EASA aircraft (or what now we call “regulation 21 aircraft”)

Qalupalik wrote:

A US pilot certificate is needed to fly a US-registered aircraft across a border if the aircraft goes outside the territory of any state, eg Cherbourg–Bournemouth.

Thanks for the reference

So you will need an FAA PPL even if you hold a French PPL and UK PPL, one is valid to fly the aircraft in Cherbourg and the other in Bournemouth?
You can argue none of them is valid to cross the FIR boundary line or the whole English Channel
What about Belgium-France? Lille FIR is inside Belgium and no international waters…

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

So you will need an FAA PPL even if you hold a French PPL and UK PPL, one is valid to fly the aircraft in Cherbourg and the other in Bournemouth?

I don’t think you do need an FAA PPL then. FAR 61.3 requires that you hold a license issued by the owner of the airspace.

My view is that the FAA wording doesn’t say you “cannot cross a border”.

Normally, of course, it is rare in Europe for someone to hold 2 or more European licenses concurrently. Under EASA this is not possible.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Normally, of course, it is rare in Europe for someone to hold 2 or more European licenses concurrently. Under EASA this is not possible.

Yes I agree does not apply much to EASA land, maybe unless you can have EASA CPL in France and EASA PPL in Belgium?

Without too much criticising BASA agreement (load of pages without anything new ), they had zillions of items missed or overlooked but there was one single big item: “allowing flying N-reg on one EASA licence across the whole EASA land”, well you can’t have load of EASA licences according to FCL but you need load fo EASA licences according to FAR, I imagine that big inconsistency does explain why some (not everybody) have opted to get an FAA PPL, but this may not be very obvious?

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

I am sure nearly everybody flying an N-reg in Europe has either got a 61.75 or a standalone FAA PPL.

Being limited to one’s own borders is pretty useless, in Europe – unless you get the N-reg plane more or less given to you and you just want to mess around a bit.

The advantage of a standalone FAA PPL is that nobody can take it away from you and you just need a BFR to make it valid. The disadvantage of the 61.75 is that it needs periodic updates if the underlying license changes (address, etc) but it has a great advantage for some that you don’t need an FAA medical, which is much harder to get than an EASA medical in certain scenarios.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

I am sure nearly everybody flying an N-reg in Europe has either got a 61.75 or a standalone FAA PPL.

Being limited to one’s own borders is pretty useless, in Europe – unless you get the N-reg plane more or less given to you and you just want to mess around a bit.

Yes I agree on touring aircraft it’s just useless, hopefully getting my standalone CPL soon in the US when things are back on the line, I flew few N-reg vintages in France, obviously for these 100km away from home base is already a lot

Probably not everybody’s taste, my parking neighbours had a decent touring Rockwell, he never went outside the UK as far as I remember, I recall he said he went to LFAT once in 2008 or 2010 something?

Last Edited by Ibra at 09 Dec 12:04
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom
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