Ibra wrote:
Which Schengen countries you think will have ETIAS+EES with finger/eye scanner in their small GA airfields?
Non-schengen flights obviously will have to fly to bigger fields where such things exist, as all the other immigration stuff.
That is not the current situation in Europe generally, hence the reason for this thread.
There are plenty of smaller places.
There are plenty of smaller places.
Big places have RyanAir or WizzAir who fly to non-Schengen (e.g. Croatia, UK) or non-EU (e.g. Turkey, Morocco), they will have all scanners with everything ready even today 
the logistics are likely to be a hassle though (e.g. PN, handling…)
Plenty of smaller GA places, really? which ones?
- In France, I can think of 4
- In Netherlands, I can think of 3
- In Belgium, I can think of 1
- In Spain, I can think of 2
I don’t know about flying to non-Schengen & non-EU from Italy & Germany but someone will know but I don’t think it’s more than 5 in every country? so GA needs some workaround or join RyanAir on tarmac…
It’s mostly Germany and Austria which have many dozens of smallish airfields where non-Schengen arrivals or departures can be made. In most other countries, there are indeed only the airline-type airports where this is usually possible. In France however, there are 78 border crossing points at airports, of which, I would guess, only a little less than 40 have an active “airline service”. So almost 40 “GA-only” places which offer this.
In Italy, the situation is still as clear as mud, with the AIP still saying:
It’s mostly Germany and Austria which have many dozens of smallish airfields where non-Schengen arrivals or departures can be made
That is what I guessed but I am not sure,
- What arrangements for arrival of non-EU pob?
- What arrangement for arrival from non-EU countries?
How many or these airfields will put finger or eye scanning infrastructure? for Germany or Austria (and some in Italy), these used to cover mostly the many light GA trips from small airports to Croatia (and previously UK)
Croatia will be in Schengen by January 2023, how many of that GA facility will be left? without RyanAir & WizzAir there is not that much GA traffic going to non-Schengen (e.g. Ireland, UK, Turkey, Egypt, Russia, Morocco, Tunisia…), the reverse effect is likely to happen: Croatia may lose immigration on small GA airports of entries unless it keeps lot of non-Schengen traffic going on (has two small airports anyway: Brac & Mali Losinj, the rest is heavily sponsored by airliners buisness or pilot handling)
I doubt having customs is the biggest hurdle for small GA airports (especially with “nothing to declare” thingy) but having immigration can bceome more problematic if hardware is required and traffic numbers are low
In Italy, the situation is still as clear as mud
Italy and Germany but almost nobody knew about this anyway. Today, it affects very few countries.
We did the Croatia angle before. The airports there run differently from say French ones. They actually want “foreigners” to fly there.
As stated, it depends on the actual equipment needed, or even whether it is needed at all.
We did the Croatia angle before. The airports there run differently from say French ones. They actually want “foreigners” to fly there.
You don’t get it: they are not in Schengen today, so every international airport has de facto permanent police presence, they will be in Schengen in 3 months and the need for immigration police around will simply fade away…hard to say what will happen, it’s not they want “foreigner” who keeps the gate open, unless they have lot of GA traffic from Russia or UK, I will not hold my breath on having POE in small airports without RyanAir/WizzAir !
In France, Bourget, Cannes & LeTouquet (and other 2 airports) have that profile, for the rest of 40 airports we tend to rely heavily on likes of RyanAir to keep that gate open with local mayors (in these place, they effectively hate “foreigners” as you said but who cares? what is more worrying is they start hating “small aircraft” now that things are transferred from likes of public CCI to private EDEIS)
I do get it.
Like I said, it depends…
In Norway, customs exists on all smaller fields. The way it works is customs come (or usually not ) to the airfield by car. For instance, ENMO is a small grass strip with customs. It has existed since the 1960s. The owner has observed custom officers there exactly once Immigration on the other hand (coming from non-Schengen), is a very different thing altogether. This can only be done on one of the 14 international airports with permanent police staff and whatever equipment and personnel they need for this.
I simply cannot imagine that this will ever change, especially if more equipment/personnel is needed. Also, where would these non-Schengen flights be coming from? Russia? A decent amount of oligarch-bizjets traffic (before the war), but they need proper runways anyway. UK? They usually fly through Sweden/Denmark instead of crossing the North Sea. The US? biz-jets again. I would say at least 95% of light GA (as in SEP) comes from a Schengen country anyway. Those that don’t (UK) usually comes via another Schengen country.
When Croatia becomes a Schengen country, they will:
Does anyone have a clue how this relates to travelling to the Schengen area from the UK but on an EU passport. So UK resident but EU citizen/passport?
Thanks
