lionel wrote:
Under Part-NCO (see GM1.NCO.OP.180), "any person can be designated as crew member provided that:
- the role, according to the reasonable expectation (…), will enhance the safety of the flight or achieve an operational objective of the flight;
- the person, according to the reasonable expectation (…), is capable of fulfilling the role;
Well, that was clearly not the case here.
PS: my bold
In this definition, when your children are passengers, the nanny can be designated as crew, in charge of taking care of them while you fly the plane. Anyone tasked with helping you “see and avoid” other planes can be designated as crew. In the case at hand, the person in the right front seat was flying the plane under supervision of the PIC
They are “operating crew” as per AirOps NCO rules and still can’t log “cew flight time” under FCL rules, go figure ! 
Now for MPA aircraft certification rules, the crew has to be licenced as per FCL rules not NCO ones: I can’t fly an MPA aircraft with nany designated as “operational crew”, in the other hand, two licenced pilots under FCL rules can’t log both crew flight time in SPA aircraft unless one of them is instructor or examiner
I guess regulations should have the concept of “flying crew” under “aircrew”? FAA has gone very detailled on this: manipulator of controls, safety pilot, PIC, SIC
172driver wrote:
Well, that was clearly not the case here.
Let me bold it differently:
The operational objective of the flight was selling the plane. Letting the buyer / one of the buyers fly helps achieve that. On the side of “capable”, well obviously someone have ever only flown TB10/C172 type planes would not pass muster. Someone that has flows turbos before? You brief them well on the MAP to be set, that this engine has more turbo spool-up / lag than the ones they flew before, etc, and you can reasonably expect they are able under your supervision.
That much for the crew designation. OTOH, sitting in our chairs with the benefit of hindsight, we can say, and we do say, it would have been prudent to let the buyer do the takeoff only on a runway with ample security margins…
Ibra wrote:
They are “operating crew” as per AirOps NCO rules and still can’t log “crew flight time” under FCL rules, go figure !
In these examples, they are crew (definition 29), but not flight crew (which is defined by definition 48a). They are “cabin crew” (definition 12). Only “pilots” are required to hold Part-FCL licences, article 3 of COMMISSION REGULATION (EU) No 1178/2011:
1. Without prejudice to Article 8 of this Regulation, pilots of aircraft (…) shall comply with the technical requirements and administrative procedures laid down in Annex I (note: Part-FCL) and Annex IV (note: Part-MED) to this Regulation.
Furthermore only cabin crew in commercial operations are required to hold Part-CC licences, article 11a (bold is mine):
Cabin crew members involved in commercial operation of aircraft (…) shall be qualified and hold the related attestation in accordance with the technical requirements and administrative procedures laid down in Annexes V and VI.
There is no requirement for cabin crew in non-commercial operation (or mission specialists in general) to hold any licence. This does not make them any less crew members.
Another example: you fly with a buddy to make pictures of the Mont Blanc from the air. You fly the plane, (s)he takes the pictures. (Subject to the other conditions listed above) (S)He can be designated crew, as taking the pictures is the operational objective of the flight and she/he is in charge of that, and (s)he is a task specialist. In particular, if designated crew, you don’t need to comply with the recency requirements for taking passengers. But you do need to provide him/her oxygen according to requirements for crew, not only for passengers.
But you do need to provide him/her oxygen according to requirements for crew, not only for passengers
Interesting
Under Part-NCO TODR must exceed TODA, there is nothing about ASDR and ASDA, and nothing about a 1.3 or 1.5 safety factor to be added on top.
Hopefully you mean TODA must exceed TODR :)
But if ASDR tables are in the POH why don’t they apply?
I agree on public transport safety factors.
But if ASDR tables are in the POH why don’t they apply?
My understanding is that NCO does not legally require operators to plan for failure scenarios in their performance calculations and in POH, only section 2 (TCDS) is legally binding
Takeoffs are outgoing only
RobertL18C wrote:
Hopefully you mean TODA must exceed TODR :)
Yes.
The aircraft was in the wrong take-off config.
For short field take off, in a PA46, 20 deg,flap must be used (not 10) and rotate at 70kt min!
If in doubt, read the flight manual.
