LeSving wrote:
It’s simple things as ATC at Air Venture Oskosh, In the webcast it was mentioned 70 or 80 controllers just for Air venture.
This has been a substantial issue in the past, with FAA refusing to do ATC at Oshkosh without payment in 2013. In 2014 they came to an agreement with EAA sharing costs above and beyond normal salaries etc.
Obviously, FAA would not lose control of ATC practices in the event of privatization, but government would of inevitably lose control of the cost structure, which runs counter to FAA responsibility.
Peter wrote:
In the USA there is an unusual system for funding airports and other aviation services whereby aviation is regarded as a part of the national transport infrastructure
We have the same system in Germany only that there is much less money available. Airfields belong to a certain category going from international airport down to private strip and the category determines among many other things the amount of government (read: taxpayer) funding. The typical GA airfields are Verkehrslandeplatz (“traffic landing site”) which requires them to adhere to approved opening times and provide a service to the public. They are part of the official infrastructure of the country. What we see is that the more the region resembles the rural USA, the more focus is on the airfield. As JasonC can confirm, there are some full service IFR airfields with everything you could wish for in the middle of nowhere in Germany because they serve an important function for the local businesses.
What is quite ironic is that the typical US pilot (who is an elderly white man that votes Republican and is a member of the NRA) has this strong anti-government attitude, promoting less government and interference in people’s lives but at the same time thinks that it’s normal that the taxpayer funds the FAA which provides ATC and all the infrastructure without charging the small minority that benefit. Suddenly this becomes a “big government” thing that makes sense. Very strange 
As I always point out, small GA doesn’t want or need this whole ATC system. If there was only small GA, we would be quite happy without class B or C everywhere and having to talk to “controllers” all the time. It is only the big boys who need ATC to keep us under control, so they should also pay for it.
But since it’s not a realistic viewpoint to call for the abolishment of all ATC, and the big boys have very deep pockets for lobbying, the next best compromise is for the government to pay for it.
What is quite ironic is that the typical US pilot (who is an elderly white man that votes Republican and is a member of the NRA)
If someone posted a similar comment on say Germans, there would be an uproar and loads of Germans would leave…
So who does the typical German pilot vote for?
So who does the typical German pilot vote for?
I have no idea what the distribution is but for sure one cannot make these statements for any of these populations, unless one just wants to be provocative / get a reaction.
achimha wrote:
What is quite ironic is that the typical US pilot (who is an elderly white man that votes Republican and is a member of the NRA) has this strong anti-government attitude, promoting less government and interference in people’s lives but at the same time thinks that it’s normal that the taxpayer funds the FAA which provides ATC and all the infrastructure without charging the small minority that benefit. Suddenly this becomes a “big government” thing that makes sense. Very strange
Well you have misconception of Americans. Yes the pilot population is aged. However I have a lot of friends who are pilots and Democrats to the point of fanaticism. We are not all card carrying NRA members. But I do find it interesting that in France there are 100 gun owners with permits who are also on a terror watch list. Talk about dysfunction. I only bring that up because I was lambasted by a guy living in France and gun control. So to get back on point. The system that was set up in the US works. Its not funded by the General tax payor but by “user fees” as in fuel sales so it should make the Europeans happy and it goes into a trust fund. A fund which the government has tried to raid but was unsuccessful due to AOPA and EAA as well as others.
We realize that transportation Interstate has to be regulated and run by a national authority as in the interstate highway system. That by the way is funded by the US taxpayer. No trust fund there that hasnt been raided.
But as someone has said it always comes up every funding cycle and as I have stated through all administrations. The airlines want to make the National airspace only their space. Just look at what you have here in Europe. See my earlier post.
Peter wrote:
unless one just wants to be provocative
True…
I know this was tongue in cheek but there is some truth in it unfortunately… Powered aviation is not a hobby that spans the complete spectrum of society and that is not just because it costs money. I found the US forums and associations I dealt with to very much tend towards a specific view of the world. This ATC/FAA funding debate (which has been going on for quite some time) reliably brings out the contradictions in the popular “anti government” attitudes and tirades among the pilot population.
Peter wrote:
nobody in the USA wants route charges. Canada implemented these as an annual payment, IIRC.
Exactly but there is no such unity here in Europe. Is there? If you cant afford the fees you should take up kit flying, is the retort I get.
When I brought up a back door route charge for IFR flights I got No support. All I got was, hey its only 5 Euros why squawk when you have a 150,000 Euro airplane?
Whats to stop the airport using this idea from charging for VFR flight plans route charges. What the difference between the two as it pertains to the airport of arrival or departure?
I think the European arguments against route charges are mostly concerning safety e.g.
GA is well placed to make these “safety” points because, let’s face it, a great deal of anti-GA regulation is done in the name of safety 
Route charges here are way more than 5 euros… more like 50+ for an average trip within one country.
