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Comparison between EU countries about how to start IFR flights from airfields without IAP

Switzerland

  • IFR in Class G is forbidden, heck they are even reluctant to clear you into Class E.
  • FIS in Class G can provide radar traffic information.
  • For joining IFR, you are supposed to climb to the MRVA (5000ft around Zürich) maintaining VFR VMC. Before departure, you are supposed to call ACC (Zürich area +41 43 931 69 65, Geneva area +41 22 747 13 91) to get the squawk code and the frequency to call for joining. Special procedures exist for LFLI (basically call Geneva Radar from the ground by radio)
LSZK, Switzerland

Flyer59 wrote:

As I said, after takeoff I cannot reach LKK radar

just make sure you are not entering TMA Praha, the lower threshold is going up once you are leaving Prague area, this should give you radio contact with LKKV. But this is really an academic advice in the case of solid overcast. This is getting us to the begging of this thread – shall I climb or shall I stay below – no matter if on Monday, Sunday or Tuesday…

LKKU, LKTB

As I said, after takeoff I cannot reach LKK radar… but thanks, I will try that again next time!

Last time when it didn’t work it was raining with a solid overcast, so I scud ran home throughthe Bohemian/Bavarian forst , which works fine if you know where the one low valley through the mountains is :-)

Last Edited by Flyer59 at 30 Aug 17:20

Flyer59 wrote:

ake off in Rakovnik, after I have called them on the phone.

hm, this is not the way it should work. Next time I would suggest you to climb staying below Praha TMA and call Karlovy Vary Radar directly no matter what AIP says. LKKV should have more bandwith to handle your request. At least this is what I discussed with guys at LKTB – if time permits, they can even handle pop-up IFR clearance with no flight plan – as long as I am not willing to fly outside LKAA FIR /not applicable to you unfortunately/. Tested already once, it did work.

LKKU, LKTB

No, I take off in Rakovnik, after I have called them on the phone.

Then I call Praja on 126.100 and they have no idea who i am.. then they let me fly around for 15 minutes VFR or they give me the LKKV radar frequency, which cannot hear me from Rakovnik … Most times I am almost at the border to Germany before everything is clear

Last Edited by Flyer59 at 30 Aug 17:13

Flyer59 wrote:

I tried that THREE times now, but they never gave me a squawk.
At least now you can get the squawk from the autorouter!

No, in CZ you won´t get squawk from autorouter, CZ is not on the list of participating countries somewhere at Eurocontrol, Achim can tell more for sure. I get the squawk in Austria two weeks ago but when speaking to Linz Radar they gave me another before I was even airborne.
Back to CZ and clearance – sometimes you can get the squawk on phone, sometimes not, but the call helps anyway. The problem starts later – you need to call Praha Info and they´ll get to the corresponding “radar” frequency. Structure of airspace is not trivial, flight levels we are usually living in /FL60-FL100/ are distributes within several sectors not logically overlapping with TMAs (for example Brno Radar is far more west than Brno TMA, the same Ostrava Radar) and this distribution is changing significantly somewhere above FL125 or even below. So if you are lucky and taking off from southcentral Bohemia heading east, you need to contact Praha Info,they´ll get you to Brno Radar. Once you get above threshold, you are at Praha and once you get close to Brno you are at Brno Radar before cleared for the approach. All that for <100NM trip ;-)

LKKU, LKTB

boscomantico wrote:

DFS haveseveral times and clearly stated that they will not report or prosecute someone who asks for pop-up IFR.

They are even offering IFR clearances for a few years now.

United Kingdom

“Sunday pilot” does in no way infer not being on top of the game.

I am glad you put that straight. Now it’s clear. “Sunday pilot” is really the wrong expression, because especially in Germany it reminds you to “Sunday driver”, who clearly is somebody who has little experience :-)

Last Edited by Flyer59 at 30 Aug 16:11

Just to try shorten things a but and give a reply to the original question in the thread title:

All, except Germany, Switzerland and Croatia.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 30 Aug 15:50
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

I want to comment on what Cobalt wrote about Germany:

Pop-Up clearances without IFR flight plan: Expect long discussions and flight plan filing in air if lucky. Might need to claim unable to continue VFR safely. Expect to be prosecuted for flying in weather VFR where you cannot continue VFR safely.

The last bit is definitely wrong, and one of those myths. DFS haveseveral times and clearly stated that they will not report or prosecute someone who asks for pop-up IFR.
There have been a couple if very isolated special cases in the past, but these were all cases where there were also other factors at play. It definitely won’t happen today. Even less so now as SERA is in effect, which clearly allows AFIL.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany
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