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Basing a Piper Turbo Arrow III in Germany

Bearing in mind you are working for the US government on temporary (all be it 3 years assigment) I think my first port of call would be to look into whether or not you can have “temporary import” for that length of time. It used to be possible for a year or 18 months IIRC, although you may have to pay a bond. It used to be called a carnet.
The bond being an insurance policy to ensure you take the item out of the country again once its import term is complete.
The bond certainly would be a lot less than the VAT or at least it used to be.
You then fly on your FAA papers as a visitor.

France

As already written explore if you will need an EASA license. Unless there is an exemption for NATO/US staff I fear you will need it. Initially probably nobody will care but if an accident happens somebody will ask

I agree, but I have never heard of this being checked or enforced, since Brussels came out with this c. 2011. Many discussions here… In this case I suspect the guy only has to pull out his US passport or Green Card and anybody trying will back off because it will suddenly become extremely complicated.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

If you bring the plane you have to make sure you get the import procedure right. Usually importing it will cost you 19% on the full value of the aircraft (import VAT). But there are exceptions if the plane is part of your belongings once you move permanently. But that needs to be sorted properly or it can end beeing very expensive.

Do not simply fly the plane over as if it was here on transit. That will initially work but end up custing you a fortune and create legal trouble. Make sure it is really imported properly!

Ask your insurance about basing the plane in Germany. Maybe you will end up needing a local insurance. It will probably not cost much more than what you pay now.

As already written explore if you will need an EASA license. Unless there is an exemption for NATO/US staff I fear you will need it. Initially probably nobody will care but if an accident happens somebody will ask. As you are making a living in aviation you do not want such legal trouble.

Then once you move back to the US you can consider selling the plane in Europe. Due to its imported status it might be worth quite a bit more than in the US. So maybe selling and getting another one in the US might be an option.

Also explore the details of the initial ferry flight. This is not an easy flight to do in a PA28 so if at all it is probably only possible during summer. Would your insurance cover that flight etc. and what is the cost associated with that mission. Or maybe it could be shipped in a container if you have somebody who can package it properly for you in the US.

www.ing-golze.de
EDAZ

Hello everyone. Thank you so much for your input. I will keep everyone posted on my research on this topic.

Eyes open. No fear. Be safe everyone.

KHND, United States

Welcome fellow P28S owner! Also looking forward to hearing how you will get the aircraft over to Europe. Would you fly it yourself?

EGTF, United Kingdom

Typical hangar prices are around 150-250 / month and double that for highly sought after areas.

You could try ETOU, perhaps the army has a flying club to take you in?

There is also EDFZ https://www.aeroreal.de/hangarstellplaetze/

EDGP (grass)

EDES

EDFB

EDFE

What are the typical costs for flying in Germany?
>landing fees 10-100€ depending on airport
>avgas 2-3€ / Liter
>N-reg AP/IA isn’t too crazy difficult or expensive

I know there are fees associated with obtaining a weather briefing, using ATC services, filing flight plans,
> Autorouter.eu free
> Foreflight (paid like in US)
>Austrocontrol weather is free

but is there a website that I can go to get a sense of what it will cost me to keep my plane there?
> You found it 👍

Happy to chat and answer any questions, feel free to PM me.

always learning
LO__, Austria

It is interesting to consider whether being a US Government employee working a stint in Germany means one is ‘established’ in the country or not, and thereby whether one needs to get and maintain EASA pilot licenses and ratings to fly an N-registered aircraft in Germany. For the OP to understand, this does now apply to Germans flying N-registered aircraft in Germany, and to others ‘established’ there, with that definition being somewhat ambiguous.

I would personally do nothing in this regard except to be aware of the issue and be willing to react if necessary, but it might be worth looking into, carefully. For US military personnel (specifically) in Germany a lot of similar issues have been resolved via treaty, for e.g. driver and car licensing, and the requirements are made clear to the serviceman but I’d imagine this one has not been resolved.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 17 Jan 17:53

Airborne_Again wrote:

Enroute ATC is free, but approach/tower ATC frequently is not. (In Germany.)

Correct, there are ATC terminal fees. My understanding is that you pay these for a fixed amount on a yearly basis if you make use of controlled airspace. Not sure where this should be published, so if someone knows please share.

ELLX, Luxembourg

Yes, for sure, if you want to get into details, some German airports also charge for departures. But these are not big – no more than a taxi to the nearest burger joint.

In Europe, fuel is by far the dominant part of flying your own plane. Hangarage and insurance are next, but insurance is expensive in the US too. Hangarage tracks land values.

Then there is general hassle like airports not open H24, etc, etc. Start here

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

ATC is free unless you are IFR and over 1999kg

Enroute ATC is free, but approach/tower ATC frequently is not. (In Germany.)

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden
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