Avionics refit Turbo Arrow in the UK

If it was my plane and i didn’t want to spend a fortune i’d probably go for
… used GNS430W (will work with your A/P AFAIK
… used GTX328 transponder
… bin the ADF
(… you do need DME for IFR in Europe)

The GNS430W you can find from € 6000, a GTX328 xpdr sometimes for € 2000 … installation cost i cannot tell …. (my guess would be € 5000 plus documentation)

Agree on losing the ADF, may save some knots on drag as well as some weight.

BRNAV is covered by the 89B, but you may need a DME for approach purposes.

The 430W should provide .833 and run the HSI in both VOR and GPS mode, but this would need checking. It’s a pity they don’t make them new any longer.

Alternatively just swap a -155 for the Garmin GNC255, get a second hand DME and a Trig TT31 mode S. This all might cost less than £6k and be relatively simple.

Getting rid of the vacuum AI exposes you to losing your gyros due to electric failure, unless you have standby alternator and emergency buses. Or were you planning to just swap the turn coordinator for an electric AI?

Phoenix Avionics have been helpful to me on simple stuff.

Yes, part-NCO will no longer generally require a DME for IFR in Europe, but some approaches still do.

boscomantico wrote:

Yes, part-NCO will no longer generally require a DME for IFR in Europe

There may still be airspace requirements for DME. Germany has that, hasn’t it? Sweden does in RNAV airspace.

Velar wrote:

Lack of electric horizon, vulnerable in IMC with one vacuum pump
Do I need to retain DME for Class A controlled airspace?
I’m willing to bin the ADF.
Will the KCS55 and KAP150 be fed from a Garmin 430?
I don’t have 8.33KHz or Mode S with the current fit.
The WX8 will go on eBay. I haven’t seen it detect anything in all my years of ownership, nor on the WX10 on the Baron I flew!

EL Horizon: You might want to consider an Aspen? Works very well and you can retain the vaccum horizon as backup.

DME: I would not get rid of it just yet when you have it. Yes, it may not be legally required anymore but quite a few approaches require it.

KCS55 and KAP150: Yes, they will by all means. If you go the 430 way, you might consider going straight to a 430W or, if the price gets too high, a GTN instead. But any 430 will feed the KAP150 and obviously the KCS55. What you might want to check out is to install a GPSS converter between the AP and the 430 (S-Tec sells one), as with the GNS430 or any similar device, GPSS is the real cool feature.

8.33: The GNS will take care of that.

Mode S: I fully recommend the Trigg TT31 to replace your KT79. It is a slide in replacement to the KT76A, and I don’t think the 79 has the same tray but it is a relatively small installation. If you go WAAS on your GNS430, the Trigg will allow full ADSB-Out capability.

ADF: If you need the space, throw it out, if not, keep it. I need to keep mine currently because it features the only stop watch in my panel (and I don’t need the space that urgently or I’d buy another one).

WX8: As I said before, you have it, why bin it? Rather find out if it works ok, have it tested. I would definitly like one for my plane if I had the space or at some time buy one which interfaces with the Aspen as a black box. I have not really heard much negative about it, so maybe you simply stayed too far away from TS activity? Get it tested and if it works, keep it.

Airborne_Again wrote:

There may still be airspace requirements for DME. Germany has that, hasn’t it? Sweden does in RNAV airspace.

Germany has an equipment regulation for aircraft flying under IFR in its airspace. This will be replaced by Part NCO supposedly and then the DME requirement will go away. I doubt that Germany will fight for national DME gold-plating because already today a large percentage of the fleet (N-reg mostly) do not have DMEs and yet fly IFR. There has been no known case of prosecution for this clear and obvious violation of the law.

I would bin the KNS80, install Mode S, and bin the stormscope which is obviously defective (they do work very well and indicate some stuff on every flight with any wx anywhere around).

If the ADF works, leave it, otherwise bin it. The fixed card is the ultimate IR test puzzle for sorting men from goats

The KCS55 slaved compass system is normally very reliable and in any case the components can be found on US Ebay very cheaply and replaced easily – “off the books” of course because you won’t get an EASA-1 form The only recalibration is needed if you change the KMT102 fluxgate or the KA51/52 slaving switch.

Your radios and the GPS are fine. I fly everywhere with KX155A/165A and a KLN94/KMD550. It is however really nice to have a bigger display of the route so maybe spend some money on that. For IFR in the Eurocontrol system it’s really great to see the route ahead. Some people here will laugh at this but it’s what I fly with and it’s super

If you already have a DME (you don’t actually say that) then definitely keep that. It’s required for many approaches and is a useful backup anyway.

Velar wrote:

So what would you upgrade to? G3X? G430/530? GTX330?

G3X is only for uncertified aircraft, so would not be an option. A GNS 430(W) and GNS 530(W) are no longer new in production. The units are quite good, and therefor populair. Prices remain quite high on these. Some of these (older) units are no longer supported by Garmin. If you’re budget allows a Garmin GTN might be more suiteable for the long run. The Garmin GTX-330 is quite expensive, and doesn’t offer ADS-B as standard. The Trig TT-31 will give you ADS-B out as standard (with a suitable GPS) and will be more affordable. Would recommend Trig TT-31.
The GTX-328 suggest by someone is NOT a good option, as it is not certified for the ceiling of your aircraft, AND it can not be modified for ADS-B should this become a requirement in the future.

Your KNS currently holds the DME. If you bin the KNS, you might consider a DME, as they are still used in approaches. You might also consider holding the KNS and have the display renewed, or the unit exchanged. They get removed every now and then so should be possible to find you a good used KNS.

The Aspen EFD1000 can be a good solution as well. You would then have an electrical horizon as well, adds GPSS capability to a suitable GPS, and gives you an RMI for your ADF as well. It will work with your autopilot, excisting equipement, and new Garmin GNS / GTN equipment as well as your current ADF. You would loose some weight as well.

The GTX-328 suggest by someone is NOT a good option, as it is not certified for the ceiling of your aircraft, AND it can not be modified for ADS-B should this become a requirement in the future.

I did not know that, sorry, I had it in the Warrior (before I upgraded to the 330 there aswell, but only because I got the upgrade for free* back then) … which of course has a lower ceiling

*After installation of the GTX328 which was NEW back then I complained about the OAT shown beeing off by 4 degrees. And when they could not imprive that they gave me a GTX330.