Noe wrote:
16 kts Max crossind? Seems like a big limitation!
16 kts max demonstrated crosswind. It’s not a limitation, it’s just the most crosswind they ever could find while testing.
alioth wrote:
they ever could find while testing.
Agreed, limitation wasn’t the right term to use, but I would be extremely surprised if they wouldn’t have made some effort to put the highest possible value there (it’s lower than a trainer). I have much less hours than it probably took to certify the plane, and certainly had a decent of occasions with 20-25 (or more, but went elsewhere) kts crosswind.
I hope that it is instead of “find” and not “dared” that you should have written
16 kts is really not much for this kind of plane. Our Aquila is a plastic toy plane in comparison and it has a max. demonstrated crosswind of 15 kts.
Noe wrote:
I hope that it is instead of “find” and not “dared” that you should have written
Part 23 requires only that a minimum crosswind be demonstrated not less than 0.2 x Vso… it goes on to say that if a higher crosswind is satisfactorily demonstrated then that value should be entered into the POH….only if a crosswind of less than 0.2 x Vso is found to be limiting shall a crosswind limit be entered into the POH….
As a result for example Mooney only bothered to demonstrate 11kts….which met the (older CAR) regulations but clearly the airplane is able to handle far in excess of this number… Tarbes Mooney (TBM) presumably had the same “why bother with more” philosophy…
Irrespective of the technicalities, publishing a max demo figure of say 25kt makes it a vastly more attractive proposition than 16kt.
Peter wrote:
Irrespective of the technicalities, publishing a max demo figure of say 25kt makes it a vastly more attractive proposition than 16kt.
The Mustang is 25knots non limiting.
JasonC wrote:
The Mustang is 25knots non limiting.
As long as 25kts is greater than 20% of Vs0 (which I assume it is by a large margin), then yes, it will be non-limiting…
Not quite. Certification specs for both part 23 and 25 only require a max demo crosswind component. This has to be at least 20% of Vs0, and for Part 25 does not have to be more than 25 kts.
However, operational manuals for operators often include crosswind limits, and in the absence of anything else often put in the max demo as a limit. Fortunately, EASA part NCO does not include this as a rule, and since there is no need for an approved ops manual, there is no way for the authority to impose max demo as a limit (as some of the national authorities in Europe used to before EASA part NCO)
So for the Cessna C510 Mustang, with 82kt Vs0, a 17kt demonstrated crosswind would have been enough, but any commercial operator would very likely have to treat this as a limit, so going for a max demo of 25kt was important.
Similarly, I believe that the high demonstrated crosswind on the TB20 is the result of a Euopean manufacturer’s awareness of some European authorities treating it as a limit.
For a non-commercial jet, part NCC applies, and the authority has oversight over the manuals, and hence it may well be different, and this may well creep in as a limit for anyone operating an SF50 in Europe – I have no idea how this will play out.
Cobalt wrote:
However, operational manuals for operators often include crosswind limits, and in the absence of anything else often put in the max demo as a limit.
But that would be their choice. The operator could also elect to put in something higher, right?
Cobalt wrote:
and this may well creep in as a limit for anyone operating an SF50 in Europe
Only if the owner doesn’t pay attention when drafting his OPS manual or doesn’t fight unreasonable requests from his NAA?
Rwy20 wrote:
The operator could also elect to put in something higher, right?
Yes. and at the next audit, if the authority does one and objects, the operator will be asked to “fix” it via a finding.
Rwy20 wrote:
fight unreasonable requests from his NAA
Good luck.
