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The PERFECT two seater local plane for the modern age.

aart wrote:

Sooo, a good option would be…. drum roll….

The SkyArrow!

Hey @aart. That is the kind of wacky idea I am looking for. Bever heard of it, but it has a real coolness factor, as well as hitting all my criteria.

Upper Harford private strip UK, near EGBJ, United Kingdom

Buckerfan wrote:

That is the kind of wacky idea I am looking for

This is more of an oddball to be honest. It’s not bad, but it looks “cooler” than it actually is.

Silvaire wrote:

I think the Savanah is likely a good bet, despite its looks. It’s a derivative of the Zenair CH701 and they are both well designed.

It looks cool !!! The newer, overall rounded and slightly larger S-version from 2010 is definitely cooler looking though compared with the old boxy look. It’s still an acquired taste I guess, but they are popular. At least a couple of thousand have been made, in addition to the CH 701 and derivatives which also perhaps are made in similar numbers. The airframe will last forever. 6061 alu, and if something is broken, just order new CNC cut parts from the factory and pop them on.

Buckerfan wrote:

Are there any small two seater diesel engine options out there

I wish. There have been some smaller (and lighter) diesel engine prototypes, or perhaps only mockups, but nothing has come out of any of it as far as I know. Glasair had the small Continental (Thielert) diesel in a two seat some years ago, but I have not heard of any other than the prototype actually flying.

The elephant is the circulation

There is the Gaz aile2 but I don’t know if that’s just diesel or if one can use jetA. If you are interested I think their base is still at Brest Bretagne airport LFRB.


Buckerfan wrote:

7. AND HERE IS THE BIG ONE – NOT an AVGAS BURNER. I want to be ready for a post leaded avgas world. So I guess that means Jet A powered or a rotax engine (Mogas – is that right?)

I think nearly all (if not all) Lycoming engines you would find on such a plane are approved for unleaded avgas. There’s a document on the Lycoming website which details which engines are approved.

Andreas IOM

Buckerfan wrote:

The smallest I am aware of is the DA40 series. Or even a tiny turboprop??

Diesels are basically non-existent. You may get the occasional converted 172/182 (SMA) or other conversions, but they fetch enormous money and can lack power. It also really depends on what pops up since there are so few.
DA40 is a good lead but the extra price you pay for diesel is still a lot. Arguably it’s a 3-seater so not too much overkill for the mission.

As for tiny turboprop, the engines simply do not exist. I don’t think there is a mass-produced aviation turbine engine smaller than the PT-6. Turbine engines are inherently expensive because of the hardened materials and high temperatures, and efficiency is lost when the engine is too small. Some companies like TurbAero are trying to break into the sub-250hp turbine, but it remains to be seen if it can be viable (and it’s still very expensive).


The Rolls Royce / Allison 450HP helicopter engine has found its way into a lot of GA planes but none of them are 2-seaters AFAIK.

IMHO the 2-seat requirement is not all that useful because a 4-seater loaded to go anywhere substantially beyond car driving range will have only 2 useful seats anyway; maybe 3 if you re-hash luggage and such.

Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

The Rolls Royce / Allison 450HP helicopter engine has found its way into a lot of GA planes but none of them are 2-seaters AFAIK.


United Kingdom

What are your runway requirements?
You can find a C152 (litteral 2-seater) or a PA28-140 (practical 2-seater) for pennies. They won’t start of 150m grass like an ultralight would, but they won’t dent your capital budget much.

ESMK, Sweden

A Cub could run perfectly fine on Mogas! In fact most non turbocharged engines can! (It depends on the compression ratio)
Take a look at Lycoming SI 1070AB

Small Continental Engines like an O-200 will also run perfectly fine on mogas.

And one extra comment: AVGAS ain’t going nowhere, it’s still being made and an unleaded drop in replacement really is coming. I know Lycoming has been testing fuels, working with avgas manufacturers to develop it.

For Europe, I also believe Warter stated they would produce 100LL until at least 2028.

In terms of planes:
(Assuming you want to stick with certified aircraft)

Older ones like a Cessna 152 could do the trick.

If it’s gotta be a “modern” high wing you could take a look at the Symphony 160 (they were produced 2001-2006), it will meet the requirements and the engine can burn mogas.

There aren’t many certified high wing 2 seaters in production anymore.


aart wrote:

Willing to go UL?

They have a range of models. The Norden is quite something.

Hand UP on this one!!
ZLIN Norden – the new world. Man and Machine, No Ladyboys airplane.
Fill up the tank once in a while, park it, forget about it. Go fly for fun – and bring the missus if it needs interior cleaning.

Last Edited by Yeager at 15 Feb 06:33
Socata Rally MS.893E
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