@hazek the killer there is really the VAT.
I would estimate this aircraft with a half time engine but without GTN650 and GNC255A, at about €70,000 to €75,000, perhaps a little less depending on corrosion, paintwork and interior.
So an overhaul at around €50,000 with transport, refitting and accessories would take this one to about €96000. But you would have a zero timed engine. So a lot would depend on what value you put on the approx 1000hrs extra plus the newer bits of avionics.
But this is just IMHO and I haven’t really followed prices of Arrows for a while.
Emir wrote:
Just don’t pay attention to the price. If you like what you see, express your interest, ask for additional details, and if you still like it, offer your price and start negotiating.
I don’t see how I can start a good faith negotiation when the seller’s starting point is painfully ridiculous. Either I will appear non serious or he will take offense being made to appear completely unreasonable. No? Plus I don’t want to waste time getting to know an aircraft inside and out via the docs and waste money and time going there taking a look if I know that the price is way too high and I have no indication that the seller is aware of that and will be willing to negotiate.
Either I will appear non serious or he will take offense being made to appear completely unreasonable. No?
In my opinion, no. You have the money, he wants to sell.
Case 1: I purchased TB20 for €125k (1300 hours TTAF, same on engine). After 2 years I had to exchange (or overhaul) the engine due to 12 years limit on crankshaft and I got a deal from Lycoming for €33k for new engine. After 350 hours I decided to sell it, estimated value was €150k, I started with €160k and ended with €130k.
Case 2: I purchased C172 in US, overhauled propeller, organized ferry flight, put some hours on it, and when decided to sell it, estimated value was €140 – unfortunately the only buyer offered €110 and I accepted.
There are two relatively liquid piston airplane types: a well maintained PA-28-161 and the DA-40. Within reason they sell quickly close to fair value, without much bid-offer spread.
The older, more complex, the bid-offer widens markedly. Eventually you end up in the mirage of highly capable airplanes where the offer might start at zero. The Beech Duke is an iconic design, but with many expensive components and a relatively low fair value. Basically a fine design made obsolete by a new generation of turbine examples.
I totally agree that most of the aircraft’s on Planecheck is not interesting to buy due to high price or to bad condition or both.
My general take is that if the aircraft has correct price and is in good condition it will sell within 1-2months.
Else they mostly stay unsold with +10000 views…
Covid drove up the prices for sure.
Also many sellers think it’s just like selling a car. Pay them and get the aircraft.
They don’t have a clue what they are selling and don’t have all documentation valid, and can’t answer simple questions.
I found my self at last a nice Arrow III with reasonable price with good balance of condition, engine hours, avionics and all documentation.
I sold it, since I want something newer and faster with better avionics.
First interested buyer bought it, and it took 2 weeks to sell it, sure it did take longer before it got delivered. But agreement was signed fast.
I almost regret I sold it since now the nightmare started again to find a replacement.
Hopefully I found what I’m looking for and will sign agreement later this week if last details is good.
The good ones are out there, they sell fast when they pop up. Have the money ready to buy.
@hazek it is not easy.
In the end there’s a plane to offer and someone will buy it if he thinks the price is right.
The same with a house or any property, no?
During COVID things turned mad. It looked like prices went soaring. Now the market is totally “loco” as the Spanish would say. One year ago it looked like prices go as high as 3 or 4 times as before. But only plane brokers will tell what was actually into it. And here we are. Market seems to steer to settle higher as before, but not as “loco” as it looked like.
Also, buyers seem to take for granted that they can buy planes for significantly less than what was recently invested in them. That seems to be over for the time being. As an owner of a „resurrected dinosaur“ I‘m currently not too sad about that.. :-)
150K for a plane with a dodgy cardbox to cover a failed ASI…
I do agree with @hazek, being in research for such plane. With just 80k as budget, but I am looking what I can have for a 100k usually, I am amazed to see that crappy is the way. One the one hand of club planes, they are usually maintainted in rules but they show deep traces of hard usage… On the other hand, owner’s planes have to be really carefully checked because most of time they say the minimal and you have to guess what’s wrong.
That’s why I changed my mind about TB10, that are not very bad planes (just slow and expensive if you have to repair it).
Sometimes you can see very nice planes. If you like the HR100/250, this one is great:
https://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=56243
planecheck_F_BXGQ_56243_pdf
It’s expensive. There is another on aircraft24 who’s less expensive with a new engine. I didn’t went to see them because finally, HR100 is not really suitable for short fields. But if you like metallic Robin, they are good plane, just a tiny bit slower than TB20.
I don’t think the covid overhang is fully worked out of the system yet. There is further to fall, especially among the lower quality stock.
Also as discussed in previous threads on prebuys etc, a major problem is seller illiteracy and a general “don’t give a sh*it” attitude among many sellers, which results in many good planes being near-impossible to buy. One would hope somebody with say 100k and who once did a PPL could read and write, but apparently that is not the case!
@williamf may have some input.
Please be aware that the planecheck URLs posted will go dead pretty fast. We have this facility (kindly provided by Dimme) for making them permanent; normally I do it but don’t have time to do so many.
A TB10 is a good plane and not expensive to maintain unless the airframe is shagged and then it needs parts from Socata, which are expensive like all airframe parts (try buying a universal joint from Piper – $1000 but yeah the Socata one will be $1500). A good TB10 is hard to find because sales were low after about 1990 due to a silly Socata pricing policy. The TB20 is in a much better situation. Being N-reg with a freelance A&P/IA also helps a lot.
We have done this many times – check various prebuy threads, and then you get junk like this where, presumably, the owner is getting divorced (quite common with pilots) and needs to show he is in the gutter.
