New To GA Ownership in EU PZ04 "Wilga"

Wilga is great!
Congratulations!
Regarding your concerns – is it good idea or not – forget it! You live only once! :)

Are there Wilga’s on the market and is there any rotation? There could be sellers that find it difficult to sell such a machine in which case you could maybe convince the seller to rent it to you? Or, even better, form some sort of club that commits to a certain number of hours, and you have priority in summer?

It would definitively be too adventurous for me to own such a machine and show up only in summer to go fly. It will likely mean getting the thing to run again the first few weeks.

johnh wrote:

An-2? It has a radial engine.

Very different kind of animal. The AN2 has got a 1000 hp radial engine which eats up between 160 and 300 lph plus large quantities of oil. It also is a multi crew airplane, even though strictly speaking, there are versions which are certified for one pilot (AN2M), but those are extremely difficult to find. Otherwise it’s at least one pilot and one engineer. And, the AN2 has fabric wings and control surfaces, which need regular change. Also, the MTOW of 4500 kg will make for eye watering landing fees. As much as I absolutely love the AN2 and flying it will be a privilege I’ll never ever forget, operating costs are quite outlandish.

What the AN2 WILL do however is transport families with “everything AND the kitchen sink” baggage habits! But then again, so will a Transall or an AN26, where you can drive your car inside…

The Wilga has a 260 hp engine. I have no idea what it burns, but nowhere near what an AN2 will burn. It used to be quite popular for glider towing even here but is now pretty much restricted to Eastern Europe. Finding mechanics and insurance should not be a problem at all in Romania or Bulgaria for a plane like that, neither should be finding a plane, even though there are not many Wilgas for sale currently. Romania does have a pretty active GA scene however. Question may well be, if a traditional spam can or even an UL won’t do a less financially risky job for flying in the summer months.

Wilga uses 60L per hour and parts are available from Termikas in lithuania. Our airclub has 3 of them, 2 have got 0-timed engines in the last 5 years.
the AI-14 does not seem to be sensitive to standing withut use- at least nobody seems worried about it the way people are about lycomings etc..

To anyone who has mentioned air-frame life limits, do you happen to know the source for that? There’s no published AD with a life limit that I can find.Quote

PDF

I tried to upload the 17 page pdf document I have from PZL, but I don’t think it worked. (Peter, can I upload a 17 page pdf here?).

Here is the cover page, and the relevant page (9 of 17) converted to jpeg. I don’t know if the values stated here are actually regulated life limits, and the TCDS does not seem to mention them, (though maybe they are stated in a referenced document). In any case, a client who wanted me to do a float approval on his Wilga seemed sensitive to the life limits on the airframe, and this is the data which substantiated that sensitivity. I’m sure that anyone who knows the Wilga will know much more about this than I do….

flippiefloppies wrote:

I like to think of myself as just slightly quixotic (PZL-104), not “full retard” (AN-2).

This is great

I read a very good article on GA in Romania approx 2009. From memory there was zero rental or aeroclubs; the only activity was outright owners or selective-entry state ‘clubs’ for competing internationally. This might mean there’s a massive untapped market, or equally that it’s nonexistant. Ideally you want one person you can trust where they get subsidised flying in return for looking after it for you.

There are a few Wilgas flying in my country, mainly in the eastern part. But in your country is the Motorstar company which produces and overhauls M 14 P engines. These are quite close to the Wilga engine type and maybe they can do engine work as well. At least you could have a talk to someone who may direct you to a company for any maintenance you´d need later. Try finding people in the Yak or Sukhoi community , they are familiar with radials. Basically maintenance on these radials is not difficult, just a few hours more. But owning aircraft with radials will require people accepting oily fingers and knowing it is not just hop into the aircraft and turn the key. You will do some preparation before , like checking for any oil in lower cylinders to prevent bent conrods from hydraulic locks. There are devices for oil shut-off and a lot more a nd no, these engines do not waste extreme fuel just because they are radials. In fact , American types are hardly better when looking at power settings in engines of 200 to 300 hp and more. Also remember , there are no mixers for leaning on these radials as far as I know about Wilgas. Instead there are automatic altitude fuel correction devices so no BS with all that leaning business. Even so, in reasonable cruise settings expect fuel flow 50 – 60 l max. It is no point wanting to race some aircraft which were not designed for high speeds, you just pay for fuel – auto fuel at 95 – 98 octane certainly ! Yes, they like oil and were designed to use oil, max. 1 l per hour is allright. But you don´t have to change filters in 25 or 50 hours intervals as no filters there. Instead the oil tank is for settling any debris and you just top up cheap monograde oil at € 6.- or so. Don´t know why these radials are talked into very poor lifetime use, cylinders are not worse than American types, same steel kind – but they do not blow heads by cracked cylinders. No talks about spalled cam lobes and followers as all roller followers in radials. We run our Yak since 2006 which sits half a year in winter in the hangar , no rust problem here. So in reality operating it is dead cheap when reading all that trouble in this forum or else. Seems the Wilga engine has about 1000 hours for “overhaul” as a low stressed engine. The M 14 P got 750 hours for first “overhaul” , then in 500 hours intervals – all communist maintenance schedule. I wonder what they do for “overhaul” on these engines. A job protection exercise I guess. When searching the internet I came across a lifetime limit of 2600 hours for the aircraft before checks at the company. But there are corrosion checks in tail joints and front steel structures on the Wilga to keep in mind. The TC holder for Wilga is Airbus Poland so they should tell you details. Not a lot of aircraft with radials at low prices to find today, the Yak 18 T multipurpose is import limited by EASA . Some guys there tried to prevent more imports from the East so you´d have to find one here – not often. Vic

http://motorstar.ro/Products.html

vic wrote:

the Yak 18 T multipurpose is import limited by EASA . Some guys there tried to prevent more imports from the East so you´d have to find one here – not often.

How does that work? Isn’t the Yak an Annex I aircraft?