I am a long time owner in the US (currently Piper Arrow and a share in a SR22, previously C177 & PA28). As a result I’d say I’m pretty comfortable with the practical complexities of GA ownership. I also spend a few months a year every summer in Romania, and while I’m nearly complete with doing a license conversion, I don’t have anything to fly in Europe. I don’t really have the time to do big cross countries when I’m in Europe, and anyway, given icing and stuff I’d probably want FIKI for that, so buying a “EuroGA IFR” plane starts to tie up a big pile of capital for something that will just sit in a hanger 9-10 months a year.
So, I’m really kinda serious about doing something crazy: buying a PZL-104.
Why?
Radial Engine
Low capital cost
Radial Engine
Decent payload, low and slow, great for just “farting around” in the sky
Radial Engine
It’s kinda cool. I could maybe ship it to the US one day and it’s war-bird qualified
Why Not?
Radial Engine
High maintenance cost
Radial Engine
Burns all the gas
My questions for the community are:
1) How certifiable am I? Is this the worst idea ever? Or does the Wilga seem like it fits the mission of VFR, low and slow, for a couple months a year in the summer?
2) How on earth do I even begin to find insurance for this? I know where to look in the states but no idea in Europe.
3) Same with mechanics? There must be some “radial whisperers” out there but where do I find them?
4) What else do I need to know about owning a plane in Europe that’s different from the US?
Overall, this plane is clearly not a traveling machine, but that’s okay, I think. I don’t really have the time to go on GA long cross countries when I’m in Europe, and I think a fun and cool old radial could really scratch the itch to just “slip the surly bonds” on a Saturday afternoon.
P.S. Anyone has any ideas for other planes that fit this mission, I’m very open to option.
An-2? It has a radial engine.
I have flown a Wilga only once (briefly, many years ago in Ukraine) and they are weird and wonderful machines. Definitely of the low-and-slow variety, so should fit your bill perfectly. They also seem to be quite prevalent in Eastern Europe, so, as I see you’ll be based in Romania, you should not have a problem finding spares and a mechanic who knows these planes. I would suggest doing some local inquiries in RO first, but these things for sure a lot of fun to fly !
“A couple months a year in the summer” isn’t really a good case for ownership of any aircraft. Besides fixed expenses that accrue all year round, your engine will either suffer from non-use, or it will have to be preserved at the end of the season and depreserved the next year.
Generally, you are right about the radial engine being a huge factor in both “Why?” and “Why not?”, but it’s mostly emotional for the former and mostly technical for the latter. You will probably find old mechanics to do routine maintenance on it, but the AI-14 engine has a TBO of 500 hours, and when it comes to an overhaul, things may get interesting. For example, I am with an engine overhaul shop near Prague, and we do have AI-14 in our capability list, but in the last 10 years we had exactly one AI-14 to work on. We have one 65-year-old mechanic who can overhaul it, but he’s the go-to guy for many old types and constantly overworked. Spare parts are a big unknown: no new parts are produced; lots of new old stock hoarded all over Eastern Europe, but some parts may be highly elusive.
172driver wrote:
these things for sure a lot of fun to fly
Thanks!
johnh wrote:
An-2? It has a radial engine.
Don’t think I haven’t clicked on the links for some of those “cheap” AN-2s. But I like to think of myself as just slightly quixotic (PZL-104), not “full retard” (AN-2).
Ultranomad wrote:
“A couple months a year in the summer” isn’t really a good case for ownership of any aircraft. Besides fixed expenses that accrue all year round, your engine will either suffer from non-use, or it will have to be preserved at the end of the season and depreserved the next year.
Thanks for chiming in! For sure can’t disagree with regards to total use in the year, but what’s a fellow to do? There’s just nothing to rent, so it’s either buy a plane or sit all summer long looking at the sky.
As I’ve never owned a radial, however, I’m not sure, are there any particular issues with a radial sitting? The AI-14 in particular? If I could get someone to start it up and run it for a bit every ~90 days would that take away some of the concern? Honestly, the low TBO doesn’t scare me too much. While that’s a few years flying on my Arrow, 500 hours is probably more hours than I will ever fly in this machine. I figure if I’ll get 25 hours a year, that’s pretty good. In which case, a 500 TBO isn’t really that big a deal.
Wilgas are cool. I understand they’re like a big four seat Cub to fly, while burning three times the fuel. I’d like to try one.
People in the US often run the engines longer than the east block ‘full employment program’ overhaul interval, using western quality oil. They then put M-14Ps on them that have pretty good US support, and carry on. But as always when you throw European regulations into the mix, away you go, off into the mind bending abyss.
If you just want to get some airtime in Romania, why not get an ultralight of some sort? Planes like the Wilga originated in a culture in which aircraft were owned by governments or very close, and were maintained by lots cheap communist labor. That’s fine if you have lots of resources and options as you might in the US, but the regulations in their place of origin haven’t changed philosophy much in relation to owning and maintaining them.
Silvaire wrote:
If you just want to get some airtime in Romania, why not get an ultralight of some sort?
I’m not an ultralight fellow. In fact, quite the opposite.
what Ultranomad said,
+
the type is almost completely extinct in it’s home country, I know about a single one recently restored and repainted – could put you in touch with the owner
Parts availability would be a concern,
engine out it flies like a brick,
In my opinion, it’s not for your average VFR flying, it offers some probably unique capabilities, but I didn’t find those on your wish list, therefore I would recommend looking at alternatives, how about Cessna 195?
@flippiefloppies, if you can forgo the romance of the radial engine but definitely want to fly low and slow, one interesting and inexpensive option is a motor glider, and these can be found in many flying clubs. To me, a conversion from SEP to a motor glider (L-13SE Vivat) was a pleasant surprise.
@Silvaire is right about the use of proper oil in the Eastern Bloc engines. Using Aeroshell or, better yet, Phillips 66 X/C instead of Russian MS-20 extends the actual life of the engine quite a bit. If you maintain your engine on condition, you can certainly take advantage of it. By the way, while being crappy for flying, MS-20 is fantastic for engine preservation, it’s not unheard of to see no corrosion in an engine filled with MS-20 two decades ago and stored ever since.
I quite enjoyed flying the Wilga, and would eagerly fly one again if given the opportunity. That said, weird to start, compressed air, get it right, or you’re out of air and a jump start won’t help. If I recall, there is an airframe life limit, so understand that before you buy one.
Understand that airplanes with slats/slotted wings have amazing high AoA capability – but… that can get you into real trouble if you have an engine failure in that regime of flight. High AoA is fun, but deceptively dangerous if something goes wrong – gliding landing unlikely.
