This
It can climb to FL80 in 8 min.
and this
It’s a ~150-155kt TAS on FL80 and 170-175kt at FL180
are both exaggerations though.
If you try that, then you will definitely cook your cylinders (or need 16GPH on average, it it helps at all).
boscomantico wrote:
This It can climb to FL80 in 8 min.and this
It’s a ~150-155kt TAS on FL80 and 170-175kt at FL180are both exaggerations though.
If you try that, then you will definitely cook your cylinders (or need 16GPH on average, it it helps at all).
Earlier this summer I was test flying the actual Turbo Arrow, also have the flight logged and took some photos.
I maybe should add that this TA has an Merlyn Wastegate and Intercooler and some speedmods from Knot4u.
Climb, let’s say 9 minutes instead and the owner told me when we climbed that he didn’t push the engine.
When we flew around at FL80 we had 150-160kt GS, and it was pretty calm day.
Fuel flow was 51 liter and if remembering corectly the TIT was 1450F might have been little more, but he was very strict to now push it.
About 170-177kt GS at FL180 was from an photo he showed me, and I think fuel flow was 51 Liter here too.
I’ve never seen anyone flew a plane with that precision and with such routine in all phases.
He had it look so easy.
As I wrote before, before descending the lower MP 2" for 2min and then started to descend.
Hold his speed in the pattern to keep engine with correct temperatures and when wheels touched ground he even started a timer for 5 min to cool down turbo, and 2 min Idle before stopping the engine.
The Arrow is a good ‘all rounder’
It’s going to be a very easy aircraft to maintain….parts are common and knowledge on type is common.
It’s comfortable for 4 people if they are not huge
and will tollerate less than perfect grass quite well.
Definitely capable in and out of 500m with 2 onboard.
But please stop kidding yourself about the speeds. It’ll only end up in disappointment.
I’ve never been one to worry about speed too much but every aircraft I’ve ever flown has shown between 5 and 7 knots difference on different days, just because.
So If you have a 120kt aircraft like a180Hp Lycoming type,
then one day on the exact same settings with ‘apparently’ the same wx, and it only does 115kts what are you gonna do?
Clearly you don’t like cessnas, but my Cessna will do just the same. Some days she’s in a hurry, some days not.
Loading, temperature, CofG, altitude, unstable air, all make a difference. So if I was really hung up on speed, I’d need a 15kt upward margin on my ‘benchmark speed or be at risk of disappointment.
As Bosco said those speeds can’t be relied on.
GS is king but never convince yourself that it’s all airspeed (zero wind) unless you’re going to fly triangles to check. Are you going up to FL180 regularly? If so great, but that’s not a very common flight profile for the avarage Arrow owner you need a 200nm trip to make it worthwhile.
Low compression can be caused by running an engine too lightly, and some who are trying to save fuel for cost, or are too cautious with their engine can have issues where ring seating can suffer. With a turbo you have the ability to run the engine a little too hard or set it up a little too lightly, my personal comfort zone is between 65 and 70% power, but each individual engine has power settings that seem smoother than others and some pilots are more senisitive and concerned than others.
I have sat in a ‘bone -shaker’ while the owner proclamed to me how smooth she was.
I was in a very clean Turbo arrow last week 3000ft 75% power on the EDM, at 140kts (IAS)
135kts GS (it was a calm day)
Fantastic, not too shabby, but I might prefer 70% and 135kts (IAS)
If I buy an Arrow (actually may do one day)
I’d be buying it as a 135kt aircraft, and any day I achieve more, due to conditions, flight levels or because I push the engine for one trip, then the extra speed is a bonus.
Obviously all of that above is clearly only one man’s opinion but only written in the best interests of helping.
Good luck with whatever you do and whatever aircraft you choose.
I’ve might been little to exited when I flew that day and thought it was faster than it actually was.
I checked my ForeFlight log of the actual flight.
It’s not an scientific research and I know that you get different speeds every time.
We flew in some different directions, and lowest GS was 143kt and highest was 157kt.
Where you can see clearly that average speed was around 150kt GS that day.
GA_Pete wrote:
I’d be buying it as a 135kt aircraft, and any day I achieve more, due to conditions, flight levels or because I push the engine for one trip, then the extra speed is a bonus.
That sounds like a good approach. Speed depends on many issues, like said before. I typically see 7 knots difference in between initial flight and six hours later into the flight. So on initial flight on MTOW I see rather 145 to maybe 147 and just before descent it’s a tad more than 150 (still with 4 POB and lots of luggage). It also depends on temperature, pressure, turbulence. If I’m solo, few fuel, it’s a hot rod. But I very seldomly have that experience, because we have it as a cruiser and typically load it full. Looking forward to IR training, where we’ll only be 2 on board 
The real question is what speed and fuel burn you think is usuable during actual planning at FL120? and how long it takes to get there all year along?
You will rarely fly above unless it’s Alps and I am assuming you are not changing cylinders every 100h (Turbo Arrow & Mooney 231 do eat these for breakfast if you are not careful)
I get that GS and TAS differ from day to day. But doesn’t IAS remain the same for power setting, configuration and attitude?
Yes.
But what we/I was discussing is that when that changes, for non obvious reasons, on any particular day the gain or loss of 5 kts isn’t a big deal and can be common on certain aircraft.
However Darkfixer appeared to be really caught up in performance figures and was seeing only the very best numbers on which to base his informed decision that the Arrow was for him.
I was just suggesting that chasing those numbers really needs an upper margin if to avoid disappointment.
Buying an Aircraft is a big deal (for most people) and will have both Joy and Stress in abundance. But starting the whole thing only to be always just a little underwhelmed by your new toy, isn’t for me a good thing.
Just trying to help.
GA_Pete wrote:
But what we/I was discussing is that when that changes, for non obvious reasons, on any particular day the gain or loss of 5 kts isn’t a big deal and can be common on certain aircraft.
That is not my experience. What would be the reason for such gain or loss? Of course you have to take air temperature into account as for a given altitude, both engine power and the TAS/IAS relationship depends on temperature. Aircraft mass also plays a role but that should be very little for aircraft which – like ours – usually cruise well in the speed range where parasitic drag dominates over induced drag. One of the few POHs I’ve seen which quantify this is the Cessna 172S POH which says that TAS increases by 1 kt/150 lbs below gross weight.
Read my post above. I know all that.
I can Categorically say both the aircraft I’ve owned and some I’ve flown will produce 5kts different on different days for ‘apparently’ similar flights. Yes I know I can work out why. I really don’t care.
But if someone very hung up on speed bought my DR400/180 expecting 2400 RPM 38lts/hr to be 120kts every flight they were gonna be dissapointed. Fact.
Often in the DR400 an aft CofG was helpful. But on some days not. I dont care.
That’s all I’m saying.
IF flying at FL120 with long legs and clear air I’d say that figures are pretty stable but thats not the typical daily mission for an Arrow.
If you’ve never seen it, you’re lucky.
