Darkfixer wrote:
What speed can I expect when flying at 65% 130KT?I flight plan for 133KTAS in a NA Arrow II at FL100 (WOT, 9gph, 65-ish%), a no-mod Turbo should give 143KTAS at 65% and 150KTAS at 75% (both at FL100). Put oxygen on and climb, the Turbo will get to >160KTAS at 65% on 11gph.
Darkfixer wrote:
I did a climb to FL100 some weeks ago in a NA Arrow II, and it took 30minThat must have been on a very conservative power setting or very high IAS. I cruise-climb my 160hp Warrior to FL100 in less time even in the hottest of summer.
Darkfixer wrote:
Turbo Arrows looks to be a qualified contender at a reasonable price, but are I’ve read horror stories about Turbo engines. […]Good selection to avoid the horror stories. Beware to use the modified power settings tables though, so you don’t overpower the engine and impact cylinder life.
The one I look at has Intercooler and Merlyn Wastegate with some speed mods.
Thank you all for all the good information.
The Turbo Arrow III I’m looking at is what I think is in very nice condition.
It has good history and present owner has owned it since 2006.
~350h since engine overhaul.
The owner is very care taking of the aircraft, it was a pleasure to see him flying it.
I spoke with him over the phone a couple of times, and when I flew with him he did exactly what he said over the phone.
So I’m not afraid that he abused the engine or turbo.
He let engine warm up properly before take off.
He keep good control of CHT and TIT, and runs it very conservative with TIT @1450 if I remembered it correctly.
Before descending he decrease MP 2" and start letting the turbo/engine cool off slowly.
He never Idle engine when descending, and fly with proper speed to keep temperaturs stable.
He is very precise to keep 5 min cool down of the turbo at landning, He uses a clock to ensure 5 min passes.
He let the engine, idle 2 min before turning it off.
He open the oil filler cap to vent out hot air from engine.
He never let anyone fly it, not even his mechanic!
It’s has a proper IFR instruments to, DME, ADF, LOC/GS, 530Waas/430, Stormscope, Merlyn wastegate, Intercooler, Speedmods, Engine monitor.
Since this would be my first aircraft, I want a good IFR platform since I’m middle of my CB-IR training with 3-4h left before check flight.
Before deciding I’m looking at other planes too.
And the other contenders are Mooney Ovation, Mooney M20J 201 and M20K 252 Encore.
Flew the Ovation last week, interesting plane. Fast and very stable, but expensive.
If everything goes as it should I will test fly an M20K tomorrow, and M20J in a couple of weeks.
then it’s time to decide…
Darkfixer wrote:
f everything goes as it should I will test fly
Before you decide, do something else than “just” fly.
Take the POH’s of all contenders and read it through. Thoroughly.
Then plan a couple of flights. Look at the performance section carefully. Find the “sweet spots” for all the contenders, that is :
- Best speed
- Best range
- Best endurance
Do some sample weight and balance calcs and find out what this plane can carry for what mission. Based on that find:
- Best range
- Best endurance
for 4 with bags, 3 with bags, 2 with bags.
for Turbos do the above with and without oxygen levels.
Find out what runway lenghts are required for the average temperatures in summer and winter. Compare with your base runway and your desired destinations.
Plan legs you are likely going to fly, particularly legs your plane HAS to be capable of flying out of your homebase, e.g. to the nearest affordable airports in Spain. Plan max distance legs and find out how which airports you can reach with 2,3,4 on board. And so on.
Of all contenders, get maintenance bills of the last years and find out what an average annual costs, what recurring items it has e.t.c.
And get a good pre-buy inspection on all the contenders.
This will give you a wealth of information and make you much more capable in your decision process.
Not a Turbo, can’t help on that one, but own a 2005 NA Arrow with two friends, so if any non-Turbo related questions, just shout. Here or PM!
Ca 18 mins to FL100, if I recall right…
“And get a good pre-buy inspection on all the contenders.”
That would be expensive. Needed only on the one you decide to buy. And the next choice if it shows up something you do not accept.
A good prebuy by your engineer should not be cheap.
Maoraigh wrote:
That would be expensive. Needed only on the one you decide to buy. And the next choice if it shows up something you do not accept.
Yes, thanks for correcting that. Of course that is how it’s done.
A prebuy can be a huge waste of money because the term isn’t really defined and can mean a lot of different things.
Step 1 would be to take pictures of everything inside and outside, behind inspection panels and ideally use a borescope for areas such as wing spar/empennage with known problems/hidden corrosion. Then use Savvy prebuy to go through all logs and images.
If they give a go, I would then take a contender aircraft to the place I’d use for maintenance in the future and have an annual inspection performed there, at the minimum.
Looking at the SB/AD database (available on FAA and EASA website) never hurts to get a feeling for problem areas.
Before I bought mine, I also was looking for a turbo one, both similar price. Being my first airplane right after my PPL, really concerned from the horrible stories I read during my research, I finally decided for the non-turbo.
I will be moving to center Europe next year, where in 2/3 hours you are almost everywhere. In a 3 hours flight, 10Kt gives you no more than 15 min less travel time.
My humble opinion, the IO360C1C6 is a bullet prove engine which reliability, simplicity clearly overcomes all possible advantages I could have from the turbo version (better climb rate, altitude and speed).
The arrow is not a fast plane as correctly said before, is not the best in any category you might assess, but average them all which is a nice combination.
lmsl1967 wrote:
The arrow is not a fast plane as correctly said before, is not the best in any category you might assess, but average them all which is a nice combination.
I agree. It is a very nice family plane and makes a good combination of factors such as payload vs range vs speed.
I also would go for non turbo in most cases unless high level flying is very regular and if at all possible for an Arrow III over a II for the extra range. That additional fuel capacity is a better “speed mod” than any other. The difference is a good 200-250 NM further range, with the Arrow III being able to do 760-850 NM vs the II with 550 to 650. Interestingly, the Turbo III is quite similar to the normal III, the turbo engine only looses maybe 50 NM over the NA.
On one of the planes look at the seller is willing to do an annual if I buy it.
Is this good enough for a pre-buy or I should do a pre-buy inspection anyway?
As this is my first one I don’t know 100% yet were to have it serviced, else I would have a good contact.
