RobertL18C wrote:
I must confess I am a pre-buy skeptic,
Likewise.
A bit off topic but for all the horror stories in this thread and as someone who dreams of owning sometime soon.. how does one avoid these. It seems like not even a pre-buy inspection can protect you. I read some advice for the US some time ago that pre-buys are nearly worthless and that one idea is to pay for an annual instead and just swallow that cost and if the plane comes back clean you start off with a fresh annual and if not, better to pay that cost instead of buying yourself a headache? Is there maybe already a thread that explores this subject?
Hopefully @NCYankee might give some insight on the USA process involving a pre buy escrow etc
Am aware of a TwinCom bought in the UK USA style, possibly without an escrow apparatus. It was N reg and the buyers agreed a price and the aircraft underwent the equivalent of an annual inspection, with the seller footing the bill on required rectifications. Am not sure what typically happens if there is a problem and the buyer doesn’t want to rectify? It may be a PoV difference of opinion. In the USA any monies (usually the agreed price) in escrow would be returned to the buyer. Not sure if the buyer is made whole on the cost of the inspection and escrow fees in this scenario, but I think they are in large part covered. Conversely, if the defects are fixed the purchase goes through and the escrow agent releases the monies to the seller.
The buyer typically selects the inspector, and the seller may require the aircraft is inspected at its base. They may balk at some excessive surgery on inspection, eg cylinder removal.
My experience: I want to see complete logbook history, inspect the aircraft, fly it and then agree an as is price. Sometimes I get a good deal, sometimes I underestimate some of the rectification cost. But a full history aircraft that flies straight, all components are serviceable, and is making book performance, usually is a sound bet. Aeroplanes, if they look good (up close!), fly good, tend to be quite honest machines. I would also limit myself to non exotics!
My last purchase, I underestimated by around £5k fixing, or should I say, curating, the KFC200 FD/Autopilot. Am also investing in getting the 2001 paintwork brought back to good spec. I don’t think I will ‘make’ money on eventual re sell, but after a year am quite happy with what I purchased. The price of the type Stateside seems to be still good/favourable with a recent example asking $499k.
“My experience: I want to see complete logbook history, inspect the aircraft, fly it and then agree an as is price. Sometimes I get a good deal, sometimes I underestimate some of the rectification cost. But a full history aircraft that flies straight, all components are serviceable, and is making book performance, usually is a sound bet. Aeroplanes, if they look good (up close!), fly good, tend to be quite honest machines. I would also limit myself to non exotics!”
Added to that, you can judge (somewhat) the seriousness/professionalism of seller by how he’s been managing the aircraft – binders, excel sheets (due times/last inspections), recent invoices for item replacements etc. – all stuff you’d expect the pre-buy inspector to do for you!
It depends on who does the prebuy.
It needs to be someone familiar with the type. A search for “prebuy” digs out some past threads.
The problem is that if “you” are totally clueless then you won’t be able to select the person for the prebuy 
The same problem with finding a good accountant, lawyer, etc. You need to know enough to do that.
A more general problem with a company is that the buck doesn’t stop anywhere. Every individual can hide behind the company, and invariably they do when something goes wrong. So pick an individual. An FAA A&P/IA (even if the plane is not N-reg) is the best way to go because they are used to working alone and being accountable, whereas in the European system everybody likes to hide behind the “approved organisation”.
I am sure it has been posted further back in this excellent thread, but never use anybody who has worked on the said plane. The reason is obvious
If you are new to ownership, avoid an old piece of junk. Old junk is OK if you know how to deal with it, so e.g. I could buy a 1984 TB20, spend 100k on it, and end up with a reasonably well tarted up 1984 TB20. But a novice would get ripped off.
Illiterate sellers probably didn’t look after the plane properly, too. Use your instinct – same as in internet dating 
And of course buy your last plane first. Never buy something halfway. Buy what actually does the job you want to do.
Typically all these details are agreed to in advance, who pays for what. Usually the seller will be responsible for airworthiness items and the buyer for any pre buy inspection or an annual inspection. I usually have an agreement that says the buyer may walk from the deal for any reason up until the pre-purchase is completed and the aircraft is accepted by the buyer. A sufficient earnest deposit is provided by the buyer that will cover any pre-purchase inspection fees and if the deal falls through, the escrow agent will make sure the payments to the inspector are paid and then refund any balance. Sometimes there is a provision that the deposit is forfeit if the deal does not complete within a specified time, like 10 days. As the seller, I would agree to an inspection and repair of any airworthiness items. I would not agree to paying for any optional service bulletins or repairs of any cosmetic items. I also would stipulate that my designated mechanic would make any repairs at my option. I would expect an annual to be provided with a list of discrepancies before any repairs would be approved. If there is a disagreement between buyer and seller as to what constituted an airworthiness item, the deal would normally terminate. As a buyer, I personally would not use an annual inspection as my pre-buy because I want to have things looked at that would pass an annual inspection, like in the case of a Bonanza, there are 500 hour inspections that might not be due that I would want done regardless. Also I would want to know the status of some optional service bulletins and key components that involve large expense exposure such as auto pilots, avionics, panel lighting, age on motors, types of some rod ends, age of fuel tank bladders, etc.
If you are new to ownership, avoid an old piece of junk. Old junk is OK if you know how to deal with it, so e.g. I could buy a 1984 TB20, spend 100k on it, and end up with a reasonably well tarted up 1984 TB20. But a novice would get ripped off.
A friend and I were smiling last weekend about how some people consider e.g. my 1971 plane an antique. (‘oldtimer’ in the German vernacular) whereas we consider it a late model plane, perhaps a little too new to be very interesting. But a plane that modern is fairly practical, which is some compensation.
What you can buy, fix and own successfully depends largely on who you know, what you can do as a team, and the equipment and licenses to which you have access. Aircraft are attractively simple in their construction, simpler to repair than a car if you wanted to repair that car correctly, and so it is relatively easy. What is really hard is not planes, it’s people and burdensome regulation.
My maintenance and repairs cost for my 1971 aircraft over the last year, including the Annual Inspection was $1350. Over 13 years of similar annual expenses it has come together pretty nicely. What it lacks now is window dressing – installation of a new windshield that I already have on hand, and new paint. About $15K for the paint, mainly because most of the work likely has to be done by a specialized shop. I don’t mind that expense but I will admit to some trepidation about letting anybody get that far into my plane without me being there. Once you give anything to somebody else, all bets are off on what could result.
I could not put up with all the people-centered contractual and procedural stuff described here, If that’s what aircraft ownership meant it would be something for me to avoid. Instead I’ve made it not the case.
Really sorry to hear this Fernando
It might be worth adding that an annual and a prebuy are not the same thing. An annual will give you a list of airworthiness issues and maybe an indication of urgency. The pre-buy is concerned with cost or hassle and should be more proactive: a good example Sebastian_G posted is a heated windshield, which won’t ground the aeroplane, but is 30-40k to replace. This is very type-specific, and some of this you can do yourself, looking at component life remaining, ADs and SBs, inferring from STCs, or looking at forums. After a point you have to trust the mechanic knows what they are doing and is working in your best interest.
Somewhat relevant, I had a top level ‘homebuyers report’ on a house by a chartered surveyor. This turned out to be a purely box ticking exercise, and he didn’t look for anything that wasn’t on his list… including the main beam holding up the upstairs which had been completely cut through.
Well, I would like to try and shine a positive spot on ownership.
Most of the pros have been discussed . Trust is however an important underrated one: trust by jockey on his steed. This can be a key difference in substantially lowering anxiety levels allowing raising of the fun factor and much more use of the aircraft.
Even a proper pre-buy can result in significant expense after acquisition. Unless you buy new, where warranty should cover you mostly, you will have a more or less steep hill to climb to bring your aircraft to your standard, both in maintenance condition and configuration. Climbing up that hill will cost you on a good airplane and depending on the age and config changes required between 10%-50% of the acquisition price, and one should budget for it.
Due to the nature of the beast, used aircraft purchase agreements are very much an as-is-where-is arrangement after due diligence or else the risk on the seller is too high. If you want to avoid that entirely then you need to buy from a dealer or someone willing to offer warranty and pay the premium for it, which will be in the same order of cost magnitude and still not have you fully covered.
In @Fernando ‘s case, I’d rather have used the moneys on other improvements: it is as a minimum a shame that the prebuy inspector did not spot something so apparently obvious.
OTOH not the end of the world in the grand scheme of ownership and I hope you can turn your views towards the future enjoyment of your aircraft with your friends and family (trust!) over and above any potential monetary recourse you will hopefully have from your legal case. In such a way you will for sure not be disappointed with ownership.
