TALAS Z508 SKP
Are you sure this works at FL170? I get:
PROF195: TALAS Z508 SKP DOES NOT EXIST IN FL RANGE F000..F175
It works at FL180, though.
This works at FL150, although it is slightly longer (1592 vs. 1564NM) than the FL180 route:
HOLLY DCT BONDY DCT LONRU DCT GILTI L179 SASKI L179 COA Y50 LUMEN Y50 GOLEX L607 DENOX L607 GILOM L607 LNO L607 ARCKY L607 SUXIM DCT ODVUX DCT SOBRA DCT BUGUR DCT VATAK DCT ELMOX DCT DINKU L603 AKANU L603 LUPOX L603 RENLO L603 BESNI L603 OLETU Z106 BAVAX M867 MUN M867 VAVOR M867 LOMRO M867 NOKDA M867 REKTI M867 NIPEL M867 ABISO L608 DOL L868 MAXUR L868 ROKSA L868 KULEN L868 GISER L862 DABAR L862 PALEZ L862 DIGOT L862 NUPSO L862 OKLAX L862 SPL L862 UVODI L862 RILIM L862 AIOSA L862 ENOXA L862 BRD L995 ORSOM L995 TIGRA L995 KRK A14 MALED A14 NIDRI A14 ROTSA A14 SOTEG A14 ARA A14 TRL A14 EKTOS A14 ALANI A14 MIL A10 ALIKI A10 ATLAN A10 XAVIS
The latest FPP crashes on this one.
Could it be your computer doesn't have enough memory? The routing graph is approx. 81k vertices and 800k edges.
a product which does IFR autorouting is best done as a website
My routing engine is also available as a command line utility:
Feel free to write some html/php/perl/java glue and put it on euroga 8-)
Anyway, I'm seriously impressed if your aircraft can carry ~110USG (+IFR reserves) of fuel and you can stay ~10hours aloft - I'd get bored after one fifth of the trip
I would see if the FL200 route could be filed with your aircraft profile (Eurocontrol checks the aircraft ceiling in their database against the requested route and then just request a lower level enroute from XAMAB.
I got them to raise the ceiling for "TRIN" to FL240 or 250, several years ago, because a TB21 is also TRIN and that can go to FL250. Previously it was FL200.
Yes I was very suprised that no TB21 owner had complained about this previously, in the ~25 years the TB21 had been around 
Very impressive autorouting results posted above. I am going to have a closer look when I get a minute.
Anyway, I'm seriously impressed if your aircraft can carry ~110USG (+IFR reserves) of fuel and you can stay ~10hours aloft - I'd get bored after one fifth of the trip
No, I can't fly EGKA-LGST nonstop, well not without a lot of tailwind. But it is a good routing test!
So, it looks like we have TWO new IFR routing products.
Then: LYD M189 DVR L9 KONAN L607 RUDUS L984 ASKIK Z74 AKONI L603 ZAG L187 IDASI M867 GILUK L604 RETRA Y400 MAVAR N132 TALAS/N0165F180 Z508 SKP B1 ATV L617 XAVIS will validate correctly with a level change from FL170 to FL180 at TALAS.
My routing engine is also available as a command line utility
How reliable is it?
If somebody is going to do that, they will need to be fairly sure it works well.
Certain previous autorouting tools were tested with a script which picked random airports and autorouted them at random levels, ran it for a few days, and the results were analysed.
One has to do this slowly e.g. one new route every minute, and random callsigns, otherwise Eurocontrol get upset. They can see unusual validation activity. This was one reason they started to hack their validation portal - to make it harder to script.
Also, I wonder how the old issue of databases has been dealt with. I am not expecting anybody to discuss trade secrets, but while one could download the airway database for free, one could not download SIDs or STARs (that data is kept a commercial secret) so the terminating waypoints had to be guessed in some way. Maybe the data is available via their B2B option.
One issue which was discovered was Eurocontrol's habit of creating airway junctions which don't have a proper name (navaid, or the 5-char name). They existed only as a lat/long. Jepp assigned them names which they created internally. You can use these as lat/long in the validation-proposed route but for the route to validate you have to get exactly the right digits (the exact characters). I am recounting this from vague memory...
Then: LYD M189 DVR L9 KONAN L607 RUDUS L984 ASKIK Z74 AKONI L603 ZAG L187 IDASI M867 GILUK L604 RETRA Y400 MAVAR N132 TALAS/N0165F180 Z508 SKP B1 ATV L617 XAVIS will validate correctly with a level change from FL170 to FL180 at TALAS.
Would your algorithm do a descent after a climb? In the EGKA-LGST case, say you prefer FL140. Obviously you have to climb to say FL180 for the Alps, but why stay at 180 afterwards? There may (or may not) be a more optimal route after the Alps at a lower level. FPP does this too (no descent after a required climb).
There is also a need to be able to specify and file a very low level e.g. FL070 because some airways going back into the UK need that. You never actually have to descend in reality...
There are several ways you can connect to Eurocontrol to sync with them. They can provide a lot of data. And it is not the case that we depend on manually downloading files and screening them for changes.
The reason we offer our routing engine in a 2-stage solution is to not overload the CFMU system. The Quick Search gives quick answers, mostly straight from the CFMU system.
Our routing engine will also suggest descends, such as filing a flightplan at FL250, but descending to FL230 later on in the route. Seemingly, our engine is not perfect as seen from the above example.
Yes, we are working on improving the engine to also cover routes at low flight levels and altitudes for those that do not have the performance to climb to a higher flightlevel. We offer already quite a few of these routes, but some are obviously not efficient. That is what we are still working on to improve.
HOLLY DCT BONDY DCT LONRU DCT GILTI L179 SASKI L179 COA Y50 LUMEN Y50 GOLEX L607 DENOX L607 GILOM L607 LNO L607 ARCKY L607 SUXIM DCT ODVUX DCT SOBRA DCT BUGUR DCT VATAK DCT ELMOX DCT DINKU L603 AKANU L603 LUPOX L603 RENLO L603 BESNI L603 OLETU Z106 BAVAX M867 MUN M867 VAVOR M867 LOMRO M867 NOKDA M867 REKTI M867 NIPEL M867 ABISO L608 DOL L868 MAXUR L868 ROKSA L868 KULEN L868 GISER L862 DABAR L862 PALEZ L862 DIGOT L862 NUPSO L862 OKLAX L862 SPL L862 UVODI L862 RILIM L862 AIOSA L862 ENOXA L862 BRD L995 ORSOM L995 TIGRA L995 KRK A14 MALED A14 NIDRI A14 ROTSA A14 SOTEG A14 ARA A14 TRL A14 EKTOS A14 ALANI A14 MIL A10 ALIKI A10 ATLAN A10 XAVIS
This route validates indeed, but I don't think you will be happy to fly such as route. To me there are too many waypoints in the route to oversee it. In most cases you will be able to get a better route while flying and get a direct (in some countries like Spain/Italy this seems problematic).
LYD M189 DVR L9 KONAN L607 RUDUS L984 ASKIK Z74 AKONI L603 ZAG L187 IDASI M867 GILUK L604 RETRA Y400 MAVAR N132 TALAS B1 ATV L617 XAVIS
Is longer but seems easier to manage. From what I understood from Eurcontrol is that they don't like these technically correct but consisting of very short route legs flightplans. But it is a matter of taste and guts to file something in the knowledge or hope that you will get a shorter direct route.
I got them to raise the ceiling for "TRIN" to FL240 or 250, several years ago, because a TB21 is also TRIN and that can go to FL250. Previously it was FL200
Peter,
I've got the same problem with our Bonanza b36TC. The designator is BE36, the same as for a regular Bonanza A36.
Where did you contact Eurocontrol to have your issue fixed?
To me there are too many waypoints
Then collapse the airways.
HOLLY DCT BONDY DCT LONRU DCT GILTI L179 COA Y50 GOLEX L607 SUXIM DCT ODVUX DCT SOBRA DCT BUGUR DCT VATAK DCT ELMOX DCT DINKU L603 OLETU Z106 BAVAX M867 ABISO L608 DOL L868 GISER L862 BRD L995 KRK A14 MIL A10 XAVIS
I would expect your route has approximately the same number of waypoints if you expand the airways.
It's a matter of taste, but I generally like to expand airways.
Great! With the airways collapsed it looks a lot better to my personal taste. :-)
Where did you contact Eurocontrol to have your issue fixed?
I have emailed my old contact (who has moved) for an updated contact detail, and will advise when I hear back.
Great! With the airways collapsed it looks a lot better to my personal taste. :-)
Except the vast majority of IFR pilots cannot enter airways into their GPS, and a 100-waypoint plog is near-useless.
The number of people spending well into 5 digits on eye candy is actually not that great (ask any avionics shop) and a lot of people are flying around with stuff like my KLN94, or of course the GNS430/530. I don't know the GNS limit but the '94 takes a max of about 20 or 25 waypoints, so if I get say 40 (which is common) I load the first 20 or so, plus the endpoint, and then do the rest enroute.
You also need an option (which FPP has) to present the route without any speed/level specifiers, for pasting into Flitestar. It's a great way to get printed enroute charts.
