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Windy Approach - Would you have decided the same as I?

The original question was about the decision to proceed to destination instead of diverting. As dublinpilot pointed out, the crosswind component was very small; less than 10 knots (confirmed by the fact that there was little or no crab and sideslip). In other words the crosswind component was below the max demonstrated crosswind component of the C172 (15 knots if memory serves me well). Turbulence would therefore be the main concern. Turbulence from the gusts, and mechanical turbulence from the runway environment including surrounding terrain. From the video, terrain does not seem to be a factor.

Eventually, it therefore comes down to your comfort level, as well as the comfort level of your passenger(s). She seemed to be cool as a cucumber. Or petrified. Impossible to tell without seeing her face

When it comes to the execution of the approach itself, it seems to me like at the beginning of the video you are on the glidepath (2 red, 2 white), and then you get above for the remainder of the approach (4 whites) but it is difficult to tell.80 kts over the threshold is indeed a little excessive…

LFPT, LFPN

In my opinion it was an excellent landing….he walked away….and the airplane was reusable! I thought he did a fine job of reacting to the gusty conditions….his speed reflected the need to be 1/2G above normal….hence the long float…he was perfectly on centerline….and he dumped the flaps as soon as he was down…. The slightly shallow approach meant that he didn’t have to rely on a perfectly judged flare to arrest descent…which is more difficult in gusty winds…10/10

YPJT, United Arab Emirates

mh wrote:

Actually that is the one thing where the steep approach is increasing exposure, because if you increase the rate of descent, the gradient of wind change will increase.

Not in gusty conditions. The gust extends far up into the air, and it is very dependent on local geography, but any observed gradient in gust? Besides, even in laminar wind conditions, the gradient only extends 30-40 feet up into the air, and is hardly noticeable in anything but gliders and microlights.

AnthonyQ wrote:

hence the long float

IMO the only real error he did was the long float, it is a very bad habit that will eventually get you. There are lots of ways to prevent it, but the easiest is a steeper approach at lower speed.

Last Edited by LeSving at 28 Jun 11:05
The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

LeSving, Gusts (a.k.a. turbulence) and wind shear are two different things and Peter rightfully separated those two.

mh
Aufwind GmbH
EKPB, Germany

LeSving wrote:

IMO the only real error he did was the long float, it is a very bad habit that will eventually get you.

Bearin mind he had 20G30 straight down the runway….so not likely a problem of over-running the runway…. Unless you mean longer time at risk of having an upset close to the ground….which I suppose is a fair point…. However from what I can tell the speed was appropriate for the gusty conditions….although ground effect amplified upsets are possibly less of an issue in a high-wing aircraft…

Last Edited by AnthonyQ at 28 Jun 11:54
YPJT, United Arab Emirates

I wasn’t able to see the fine detail (eg ASI, Flap setting) but I assume this may have been a flapless of Flap 20 landing, as recommended in the Cessna AFM for improved lateral stability. A Vref at 80 knots, if this was in fact the approach speed, seems to take into account a 20 knot gust factor (rule of thumb to add half the gust factor) and a flapless approach. So arguably around 10 knots too fast, but at 80 knots the passengers would have felt the approach was more solid through the low level turbulence near the houses, fence. The runway seems to be sufficiently long that a sensible hold off worked fine. It wasn’t a full stall landing but at no point was there a risk of loss of control, in fact seemed very well executed. Well done, both for the smooth landing but also some credit goes to the safe design handling of the CE172.

I would treat 30 knots as a kind of limit for a Club aircraft (in fact the typical club rules for a CE172 or PA28 might cite this). Trying to drive it on in gusty conditions might result in wheel barrowing, and loss of control. 20 knots for a conventional aircraft, ie tail wheel is a sensible limit.

I admit to flying in the past with higher gusts, but today working on my no old, bold certificate, so the Club rules of thumb work for me.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

Hi guys,

first of all, thank you for all of your replies!
Let me explain a few things:

W&B: No, my aircraft wasn’t very light. We were four people on board. So you know… that is nearly the maximum allowable weight for a C172… with a few US GAL of fuel….

Speed: Yes, I was a bit too fast. I thought, if there is a downburst or if I have to go around, I have enough speed reserves, and climbing/accelerating is easier for my 165 hp engine.

Glidepath:

  • At the beginning of the video I was on the glidepath (2 white/2 red).
  • Overhead the industrial building I was too low (1 white/3 red). In that scene you can see that I worked hard to maintain height, speed and direction. If I remember rightly, I had a strong downwind on the right wing.
  • When passing the motorway, I was again on the glidepath (2 white/2 red). Maybe the video is a bit distorted due to the enormous wide-angle of my GoPro.

Flaps/Trim: It was a lading with flaps 30. Short before the video started, I selected flaps 30, and the turbulence came suddenly. After handling/passing the turbulence I recognized that I had a force on my yoke, wherefore I decided to trim the airplane on very short final.

Rule: “rule of thumb to add half the gust factor” – thank you for that hint! I will remind that.

Aviathor wrote:

She seemed to be cool as a cucumber

Thank you… I told my gf she is a cucumber, and now she’s angry with me! Don’t know why….

However, with these videos I want to share my experiences and try to analyse my flights (what can I do better next time, what was wrong, what was good).
Thank you, and see you!

Last Edited by MAF at 28 Jun 14:34
MAF
LOWG

QuoteW/V 175/20 175V280 20G30
RWY Direction: 166 (17c

Am I the only one who would have stayed on the ground with this (metar) wind data? The wind data indicate that the wind could become a straight 90 degrees (or more!) at 30 knots one second before touching down.

On the other hand we don’t know the actual 2 minute wind that time, so we don’t know minimum /maximum /mean for these 2 minutes.

I liked the centerline landing a lot!

Last Edited by atmilatos at 28 Jun 13:59
LGMT (Mytilene, Lesvos, Greece), Greece

Peter wrote:

As regards flaps, one should land with the setting in the POH. I always use the full landing flap. If one day you find yourself in a retractable, using half flap will remove one of the gear-up landing protections.

How so?? About 95% of my flying is in RGs (mostly 182, some 172) and I only use full flaps if needed, i.e. short field. POH for both says ‘as required’. Which landing protections are you talking about? If the gear warning horn, on the Cessnas this is linked to the MP and comes on if power is reduced to around 12" (as per POH – in my experience is comes on around 14") with the gear up. It also comes on if the flaps are extended beyond 25deg and the gear is not extended (C182RG). Can be a bit annoying when practicing slow flight.

MAF wrote:

Glidepath:

Do people here really look at those lights? In visual conditions in a light airplane? I can’t remember the last time I did that, maybe when I took the PPL and the instructor wanted to demonstrate how they work.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway
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