Why do syndicates so often not work?

I think there may also be the geek factor in not renewing…

Let’s be honest guys, flying might be sexy when viewed from the outside but we are geeks

Yesterday was the 25th aniversary of my first flight in a Group (of six) Jodel DR1050. I’m still in that group. Reasons for members leaving have been moving away, medical, and becoming a sole owner. When I (a secondary school teacher) joined, the other members were two small businessmen, a retired big company guy, an oil industry guy, and a senior mathmetician at a nuclear research facility. We’ve had a welder, a truck driver, a senior accountant, an anaesthetist, a retired agronomist, an offshore geologist, a ROV operator, and a police sergeant. We don’t have similar saleries, we don’t have similar flying aims. We don’t live near one another. Ages are from 30s to late 70s. Hours are low to over 2000. Qualifications are LAPL to CPL. It does work though.
At present, the Group finances are good, and £60 per tach hour wet (mogas), and £50 per month makes a good profit after hangarage, insurance, and maintenance.
Speed wise, the DR1050 is about the same as a Pa28-161, and faster than a C152. The cockpit is unfortunately much colder than a Piper or Cessna though – but the view is much better.
The Pa28 Group in our hangar is 16+, and has been in existance since 1995.

Let’s be honest guys, flying might be sexy when viewed from the outside but we are geeks

Speak for yourself Jon. Pilots are like Maverick….

Speak for yourself Jon. Pilots are like Maverick….

Lol. Ah, you turboprop jockeys, you guys get all the girls…

Using the “Ghostrider” callsign and a G-suit in PA28 does make a pilot…….. stand out

Thanks Michael, I hope so and that I may also one day be able to join a fly-in, but I will probably need a different aircraft than the one under consideration to do so in a timely way. I will also try and stay current on the PA28 or have the opportunity to fly other aircraft.

This is a timely thread which gives me some good, common sense points to look out for and fingers crossed that it works out. Thanks EuroGA!

I am still in a syndicate of the Piper Archer III I flew last year for 6 weeks through Africa. That syndicate is one with 20! pilots in it and even that works fine. The PA28 is in a foundation with a board of 3. I was on the board as chairman for some time but moved away from the board to make room for another member of the syndicate. We have booking rules that give each a great opportunity to fly and we fly the PA28 for 145 euro per hour wet (which includes, fuel, reservation for maintenance and engine/propellor replacement). Yearly costs are 560 euro per member, which covers the fixed costs such as insurance and hangar costs). The great thing is that if we want/need a new engine, we share these costs with 20 members. The drawback is that you cannot fly the aircraft at each moment you like. Still it was no problem for me to take the aircraft with me for 6 weeks through Africa and the Middle East last year.

My first flying with an engine was in an ultralight motorglider that i shared with a good friend. We had endless problems with paperwork, authorities and the airplane, but we learned a lot and never argued. And flew in the end. We sold the ultralight to get our PPL, and he bought 1/10th of a 172 in a well-mannered syndicate. I flew rented Grummans and Pipers for many years, calling friends, relatives and colleges every week to go on a trip in the weekend and share the bill.

Then I became an instructor. That made it fairly easy to get to know the syndicates and the pilots at my home airfield, and a few years later I bought 1/6 of a Piper Dakota; and since I always missed the “smell” of gliding, I joined a group establishing a TMG syndicate, in which I have had a 1/15 share for about 7 years now.

The Dakota syndicate is mixed IFR/VFR, and that does cause different priorities concerning equipment and upgrades, but basically the syndicate still works, and I just will have to do without stormscope, WAAS, de-iced prop, engine analyser and whatever. The basic autopilot and the G430 are kept in working order, and maintaining IFR status is not questioned. I would like to buy some equipment on my own, but that would be difficult to handle in a syndicate. Most flying is compromising, flying in a syndicate is just another compromise.

There is a PA-28-140 with 13 shares that I know about, and after an engine upgrade the group has somehow agreed to spend EUR 12.000+ to upgrade the 1967 aircraft to IFR status. Most owners are VFR only, but maybe some of them dream about IFR now, seeing CB-IR start working.

The Bonanza I flew for many years was owned by two friends who had airplanes together for 25 years, claiming not ever having argued with each other.

I do know of a shared ownership that did not work, may be two, but in most cases the planes are in nice shape and the owners are happy. I even know one pilot who bought a EUR 300k single for himself, flew it for 2 years and then sold 3 of 4 shares. Last summer, one of the new owners wrecked the airplane in a simple landing accident. Remarkably, that group is still intact and is actively seeking a new aircraft.

It very much seem to be a personality thing. Nice people and clearly defined tasks and responsibilities of course are good things. Being nice includes being considerate to the aircraft. With 15 in a syndicate, there is bound to be some variation there.
I think also a set of rules, paranoidly written for the situation when relations have broken down completely, is useful.

In my experience syndicates seem to work surprisingly well, and without them, GA activity would have been much more collapsed than it already is.

Apparently, the term “syndicate” is being used here to describe any one of the following :

- Club,

- Association or non-profit Organisation;

- Partners;

- Co-owners

Is that correct ?

Why do syndicates almost never work?

I have been in a syndicate for over 20 years. It has been successful by any measure. Before I joined I owned a succession of aircraft on my own. Common sense always lurked in the back of my mind and said “you cannot justify all the expense of personal ownership for the amount of flying you do”. When the opportunity arose to join this syndicate I joined without any qualms. The one thing that we do when a change of member is forthcoming, is to have a meeting with the new proposed candidate to assess his personality. We want people who will not “rock the boat”. Up to now we have not had a serious problem with our membership. We all keep to the rules (such as they are), and sharing the costs 9 ways is definitely easier on the pocket. As the years have passed we have become good friends. Most of us our now in our twilight flying years as flying Granddads.

http://gbuysflyinggroup.moonfruit.com/