VFR navigation via IFR intersections/waypoints

Using IFR waypoints if mostly easier instead of using town names/other landmarks in an unfamiliar area.
BOMBI is BOMBI, if anything is unclear you clarify and the phonetic alphabet will be used.
I don’t think the use of an IFR waypoint instead of a VFR reporting point will make much difference in receiving a CTR crossing approval.
If you use FIS/flight following they might have a better idea of where you are going using IFR waypoints instead of town names…
In the end, it’s only points on a map, there is nothing IFR to it when flying VFR. You are responsible for everything yourself in uncontrolled airspace even if you proceed to some IFR waypoint.

Snoopy wrote:

I don’t think the use of an IFR waypoint instead of a VFR reporting point will make much difference in receiving a CTR crossing approval.

Generally true, but does vary some by country. For example, when crossing northern Italy, one will usually receive routing instructions via the VFR waypoints, not IFR waypoints, and the VFR waypoints often define “compulsory” routes across a CTR. Flying once from Portoroz LJPZ to Bolzano LIPB, I requested a climb to 10’000 feet and was passed to Ronchi Approach which is an IFR control frequency. They cleared me up but then asked me to adjust my route, giving me VFR reporting points, to avoid a para jumping area. Once passed it, they cleared me to an IFR waypoint. I was on a VFR FPL. Having both types of RPs available is always handy.

To me the good thing about using waypoints or standard routes in general is that you get used to airspace/navigation around them (less likely to bust lost if you have no device or controller warning/position) and you have a sense of where to go if things go bad (gliding range to known fields while soaring or PFL in a SEP)

Now for using IFR waypoints specifically with ATC while VFR, I had a mixed feedback from those who take you seriously and work on it to those who just ban it (London Info told me one day not to use LAVRI as it is “IFR waypoint and I am VFR” but they seemed happy with “half way between Ashford and London just left of M20”),

For navigation, I generally find it to cause additional confusion to what is already confusing VFR/IFR thing in the UK (asking for a direct VRPs crossing while IFR? asking for IFR waypoints direct while VFR?), so I try to make things clear by clarifying IFR/VFR then adding “I have them in GPS”, you can write other long stories on this: FL vs Altitude, IFR waypoints in VFR flight plans, town names in IFR FPs…

I doubt there is an advantage in using IFR waypoints for VFR zone crossing clearance as you will need to visually find and recognise those VRP features but if sometimes you fly something (like me) with hand-held radio and tablet and it does not have TXP, VOR, GPS…then before requesting VFR zone crossing, you can hint to the controller that you know your stuff/area and that you have a moving map (not just paper map/compass) by saying something like “vfr orbiting 5nm south of xyz VOR/NDB for primary ident” and ask for a route along their VRPs or IFR waypoints…there is no way you can navigate visually to most IFR nav aids or waypoints, but you can still hint to ATC that you have it on Skydemon not on the low level IFR routes chart and without confusing them on IFR/VFR ;)

If you want something new, good luck for visual spotting of NDBs/VORs even with Skydemon, RBI, CDI, DME…

It is indeed very much easier to plan a VFR flight via the 5-letter “IFR” intersections, and navaids such as VORs etc, but you have the problem that ATC (specifically area FIS or tower controllers, not IFR controllers obviously) in some countries will either not know these or will deliberately refuse to discuss them with a pilot flying VFR.

We did that e.g. here.

ATC is entitled to expect a VFR pilot to reference VRPs when departing or approaching (I don’t have a reference, sorry). That is why, when I was buying my TB20 in 2002, and had a choice between 2 × GNS430 or a KLN94+KMD550, I went for the latter because the KMD550 mapdata has the official VRPs.

Subject to the above occassional issue (noted mainly in France and Italy, though not in recent years) I do think that using the IFR waypoints is helpful to ATC and anything which makes you sound like you know what you are doing is going to help with CAS transits – because so many pilots don’t

If you are using IFR waypoints in SkyDemon you do not have to be in ‘Airways chart mode’. You can have the waypoints showing on the VFR Chart if you have ‘Show waypoints’ activated on the Navigation set-up page.

“To begin with IFR navigation, I switched my SkyDemon from VFR mode to the “Airways mode”
The problem with doing that is that you don’t get the airspace depicted, which you are probably trying to avoid!
However you can display ifr waypoints in vfr mode…there is an option somewhere…

I’m flying VFR using SkyDemon but after I did my Night Rating (I have no instrument yet) in October/November and at the suggestion of my instructor, I started using IFR/navaid waypoints because I can plug them as a FPL into the Garmin (and get used to its UI/UX, in this case a 430W) to navigate using the CDI. I don’t always use such waypoints for all legs of the trip, but try to for as many as possible. I don’t see any other benefits at all (ATC, etc) to using such waypoints for VFR flying.
By design the PPL doesn’t teach you anything about the Garmin (or in my case it was an Avidyne) other than using it for comms/nav frequencies and how the Direct To can be useful in an emergency. But with a bit of self-teaching, it is very useful (especially NRST).

The only time I’ve used IFR points is when they are also VFR points, e.g. LONSU on the way to Corsica, or PN2 for Portorož is also VICKY. Generally I use VORs and towns, with distance and cardinal bearing if necessary.

Sometimes crossing the channel London info have asked where my FIR crossing will be. I know these points are marked on the UK 500,000 map, but I use a French 1,000,000 or an Airmillion, which doesn’t help So, returning from LFRG recently, we planned to route via ATMOS and NEVIL. I had to repeat ATMOS several times and eventually spell it, by which time we had reached it. I didn’t bother with NEVIL/Neville. Either Deauville APP weren’t expecting it, or were dropping hints that we shouldn’t use it. Maybe they were looking at a map of Calvados trying to find a little village called Atmos, like I normally have to do in the cockpit Wasn’t Atmos one of the Three Musketeers?

Having the option to access the 5 letter waypoints on a gps if you need them is a big improvement, but I’m VFR and happy to stay VFR.

Is there any logic behind naming the waypoints? Some are obviously names, some sound like real words, and some make no sense.

Edit: typo

I don’t know about logic but sometimes humour has a role. Look at the area around the Isle of Wight and you have NEDUL and THRED, NEDUL being adjacent to The Needles lighthouse. HASTY is just off Hastings, TUNBY is by Tunbridge Wells, ALKIN near EGKB was named after an aluminium factory, TANET is just off the Isle of Thanet,and in my neck of the woods we have TOLEN – the island of Tholen, LEKKO which is near Lekkerkerk, NYKER near Nijkerk and the list goes on.