VFR flight plans for the Netherlands must go via fax or email (Autorouter won't file VFR for NL)

https://ais.dfs.de/pilotservice/home.jsp

Register and file your flight plan 😉

Just give them a call and file by telephone.

I can’t believe someone suggesting this in year 2022. Even Croatian ATC, after many years insisting on calling ARO, gave up and developed FP filing system few years ago.

Or Skydemon

I want to file a Z flight plan, VFR to IFR. SkyDemon is excellent for VFR but does not support IFR flight plans.

The option to use the German site is worth exploring- I will try that. Thanks for the suggestion

Otherwise I will resort to tin can and string, I also can’t believe that telephone filing remains a requirement these days.

DavidC wrote:

I want to file a Z flight plan, VFR to IFR. SkyDemon is excellent for VFR but does not support IFR flight plans.

I just tried AutoRouter Z-FPL & I-FPL in NL
- IFR portion of Z-FPL is not sent to IFPS
- VFR portion of Z-FPL is not addressed
- I-FPL is sent to IFPS (Bretigny & Haren & BRIA)

Assume you file that Z-FPL and you add few extra addressing (not as per Dutch ENR1.10):
- Add extra VFR AFTN address for Dutch Mil or Amsterdam FIS: EHAMZPZX…
- Add extra IFR IFPS address: EUCHZMFP, EUCBZMFP, LFYNZPZX

Why this is not enough?

Ibra wrote:

Why this is not enough?

Because the Netherlands refuses to get VFR fllght plans over the AFTN from anyone other than another ARO.

That is only for V-FPL? I have flown with 2000 on my transponder over Belgium & France like UFO once with everybody asking why I am flying cross borders without flight plan (I departed uncontrolled from Netherlands to France before SkyDemon fixes ‘that bug’)

So what Netherlands call VFR flight plan is actually V, Z, Y? I had the impression Z, Y, I are IFR flight plan and V is the only VFR flight plan…

The VFR flight plan mgmt have been under discussion for years at eurocontrol, the AROs are against it due to the specific local regulations and complexities involved. Basically its best (my personal opinion) that any not pure IFR flight plan Y,Z,V, is handled directly by the ARO to acknowledge the VFR portion. I use AR for validating submitting I use my local ARO service. E.g. When I fly VFR in Hungary I use Hungarocontrol, Sky Demon works there but I always check if they got it.. I know a lot of AROs don’t like the way SD is used as the work anyway ends up with them. I think personally the whole thing should be reviewed in Europe.. Explain that to a US pilot with his first experience flying in Europe :-). Another topic is the way how VFR file plans are filled in…. :-) but that’s a thread drift…
Who validates the VFR flight plan? SD or ARO? SD only confirms that the FLPN is sent …not validated..

Vref wrote:

Who validates the VFR flight plan?

Nobody.

Ibra wrote:

have flown with 2000 on my transponder over Belgium & France like UFO once with everybody asking why I am flying cross borders without flight plan

France requires a flight plan to cross its borders. E.g. Belgium and Germany don’t (intra-Schengen).

Ibra wrote:

So what Netherlands call VFR flight plan is actually V, Z, Y? I had the impression Z, Y, I are IFR flight plan and V is the only VFR flight plan…

See AIP ENR 1.1.2.3:

1.1.2.3.1 IFR or IFR/VFR flight plan

Holders of an Air Operator Certificate (AOC) shall file their GAT IFR or IFR/VFR flight plan with IFPS using their own AFTN or SITA access point. Flight plans can also be filed via the internet using the Amsterdam Integrated Briefing system (see GEN 3.1 paragraph 3.10.3).
If those means are not available, a flight plan may be communicated to the ARO serving the aerodrome of departure (see paragraph 1.1.2.4), using a phone. AFTN or SITA shall not be used by other parties for filing flight plans, these flight plans or flight plan related messages will be rejected.

1.1.2.3.2 VFR flight plan

A VFR flight plan (including second stage flight plans) shall be submitted to the ARO serving the aerodrome of departure (see paragraph 1.1.2.4). Furthermore, VFR flight plans with DEST/ZZZZ shall also be adressed to EHAAZZXX. Flight plans can be filed via the internet using the Amsterdam Integrated Briefing (AIB) system (see GEN 3.1 paragraph 3.10.3). If AIB is not available, a flight plan may be communicated to the ARO serving the aerodrome of departure using a phone. AFTN or SITA shall not be used for submission of flight plans and or flight plan related messages (except messages from other AROs).

My understanding is that pure IFR flight plans to/from the Netherland “work” through autorouter because it files directly to IFPS through an IFPS/Eurocontrol-specific B2B connection, not by AFTN to a Dutch address. So my understanding is that anything that has any VFR departure or arrival in the Netherlands, not filed by an AOC holder, is “forbidden” to be submitted by AFTN (so by autorouter, which uses AFTN for VFR). I’m unsure about an enroute VFR leg on an otherwise IFR flight plan :-|

IIRC, AIUI, V flight plans have to go via AFTN. I remember this from when the AR was being developed. I was part admin for a year or so.

But the AR uses an AFTN gateway in the USA. It is an ARO. See previous threads. Also see posts by Hunnicat. He didn’t like a lot of things Also search for KBLIHAEX which is the AFTN address of the business which most FP filing sites seem to use (AR, EuroFPL, SD uses EuroFPL, etc).

A lot of ATC don’t like SD because most users use rubber banding for planning and the resulting FP contains lat/long coordinates which their software cannot plot.

Vref wrote:

Explain that to a US pilot with his first experience flying in Europe :-).

Explain that to EU pilot who was flying all the time in Europe !

I am still processing what @lionel has said on VFR/IFR mix, maybe this needs some ‘real world testing’ :-)