Hello everyone,
Next week I’m planning a trip in Cirrus SR22 from Warsaw to Limnos (LGLM). I have already read the flying in Greece tutorial from AOPA Greece (https://www.aopa.gr/en/flying-in-greece) so I think I understand what I need to do. I have applied for PPR to HCAA and still waiting for response.
However, I have a slight problem with arranging handling. According to ground handling information provided by AOPA Greece (https://www.aopa.gr/en/aopa-hellas/member-benefits/332-aopa-en-c-4) LGLM should be served by GoldAir, SkyServ and SwissPort. I tried with GoldAir and SkyServ first. GoldAir already responded that they do not have handling agent @ LGLM. SkyServ did not respond yet, but I do not have high hope there either because it was actually quite hard to find their E-mail address (the official website of skyserv is not working)…
I tried contacting by E-mail the airport , but unfortunately all E-mail addresses that are provided by HCAA (http://www.hcaa.gr/en/our-airports/kratikos-aerolimenas-lhmnoy-hfaistos-kalmh) are invalid.
Does anyone have any experience with flying to Limnos?
Thank you!
Indeed Skyserv’s site is down and they’re working on it. http://www.skyserv.aero/
All their contact emails are in the format “iata code” ops (one word no spaces or _ in between) @skyserv.aero
So for Limnos LGLM it is lxsops[at]skyserv.aero
Send them an email there and they will respond for sure.
Their phone number there is +302254029660 if you want immediate information.
Write them that YOU are coordinating the PPR with CAA & HAF so they do not charge you for that process.
The process you initiated with CAA (who coordinate with Air Force) is the proper thing to do to avoid handler doing it.
If they do not respond to your email within 3 days give them a phone call for follow up at the number mentioned.
Usually they respond within 2~3 days.
To: HCAA/D1/A
Email : d1a[at]hcaa.gr
Fax: +30 210 8947101 & 8916338
Tel.: +30 210 8916247
Keep in mind Limnos is a quite active remote Air Force Base for readiness military aircraft performing interceptions almost on a daily basis.
The area southeast of Limnos is quite “hot” …
It should not affect you but I just mention it in case you get asked to hold over here or there without explanation.
You can tell from the tone of the (nervous) voice of ATC when such procedures are in progress but that’s all you get because the party takes place in UHF frequencies. Fighters on 4 minutes standby (some times 2) are getting launch orders any time of day or night (if Limnos is on readiness duty that week) and you may well be on final approach when they ask you to break approach and hold over some area for few minutes.
Do NOT take pictures while at the airport.
@petakas thank you so much for comprehensive info. We will pay close attention to the military activity.
In the meantime I got response from Swissport. It is interesting that I got it as a response to handling request that I sent to skyserv ([email protected]) ;-)
Apparently Swissport are the only handler at LGLM and they do not offer any special discount for AOPA members. They charge 220 EUR for aircraft up to 3000kg.
They also said that for flights from outside of Greece there is customs fee of 50 EUR. Is this your experience as well? I would expect customs only for flights from outside of EU…
Swissport acquired Skyserv a year or so ago. They have not merged yet to one company but its the same ownership.
AOPA has handling discount agreements only with SKYSERV & GOLDAIR because SWISSPORT canceled their agreement last year when they acquired SKYSERV.
There was some sort of legal conflict according to them.
So especially for Limnos you seem to be unlucky because in most other airports there is either SKYSERV or GOLDAIR there. I do not know which airports have only SWISSPORT but Limnos may be an exception or a seasonal thing until full summer season starts when they may man more handlers there.
www.aopa.gr/info paragraph 12.b mentions Limnos LGLM as in the “3 handlers” section because this is the info. they have got.
The customs fee is for handler to notify them that you are coming and for customs to come for you i.e. their expenses. I know we both agree on how this sounds, thats all I can say.
Regarding the need for customs even though you are coming from EU as intra schengen flight, read www.aopa.gr/info paragraph 13 which explains the unexplainable.
We both agree on how this sounds, thats all I can say (again!)
TomekZ wrote:
(the official website of skyserv is not working)
Its back on line today http://www.skyserv.aero/network.html#!/catid=1;2
@petakasm, sure, here are few notes from our trip. We did the flight in Cirrus SR22, so all charges were based on 1542kg MTOW.
The flight itself was uneventful, but the planning, due to very limited opening hours of Limnos, was quite challenging.
On the day of our arrival Limnos airport was only open from 21:00 to 22:30 LT (actually it was also opened early in the morning, but this was too early for us). Because of convective weather over Serbia and Macedonia we had to clear that part in the morning, which was incompatible with opening hours at Limnos. Due to that we had to make another stop for approx 8 hours @ LGTS, which was fine except that it did not help us much with fuel (still no AVGAS at LGTS) for which we had to stop @ LYBE (Belgrade) and came with a hefty price of 360 EUR (Handling with Goldair with AOPA discount). So the savings on cheap fuel @ LYBE (1.2 EUR/liter) where eaten up by FRAPORT and Goldair @ LGTS. It was funny because Goldair handling people @ LGTS where very sympathetic about the cost and blaming FRAPORT for such high costs but in fact their charges were more than 50% of the total cost ;-)
The total cost including 4 days parking and 2 pax was 280 EUR, which is outrageous but still a bit better than LGTS. Since we came from LGTS (local flight) there was no customs fee. On the way back, due to not having enough fuel to fly from LGLM to LYBE (with reasonable reserve) we decided to make a fuel stop in LBSF (Sofia) instead LYBE, which was very efficient and fast, but unfortunately much more expensive (2.9 EUR/liter).
It seems that customs fee applies only to arrival as we arrived from LGTS (local flight) but departed to LBSF (international flight), but we were not charged any customs fee.
BTW. I’m actually writing this from Limnos. My family liked the island so much that we have planned another trip here. We arrived last Saturday, this time due to weather over Hungary and Serbia we took the route from Poland via Ukraine, Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey with a technical stop for fuel in Burgas. Cost wise it ended up similar because the fuel in Burgas is 3.1EUR but we had no additional stop in Greece since opening hours of LGLM are a bit wider during summer. This time we had an “interesting” Turkey overflight, but that’s another story.
It seems that Swissport has already “organised” better @ LGLM because they added to their cost structure (wasn’t there 5 weeks ago):
An additional 20% (twenty per cent) of the Basic Handling charge will be charged for handling services provided to aircraft during night hours i.e. between 22:00 and 06:00 hrs local time. Plus24% vat
An additional 30% (thirty per cent) of the Basic Handling charge will be charged for handling services provided to aircraft operating flight(s) on Saturdays, on Sundays and/or Legal/Bank Holidays. Plus 24%vat
Basic handling fee up to 3000 kg is still 220EUR + 24% VAT. And this is more or less what we have paid last time, but I expect that this time the total cost will be way over 300 EUR as we arrived on Saturday so +30% and from Bulgaria, so there will be 50 EUR customs fee + FRAPORT 12% administrative/accounting surcharge…
12% is an outrageous commission they get for paying FRAPORT on your behalf. If you insist (to death!) to pay them yourself you may make it but it’ll be a hassle because they are not set up of client showing up at the till type of service. Its one of these cases where you say (handler) take the damn money and off I go to have my nice vacations.
2.9 Eur/Lt is also the price of AVGAS in Greece.
Tell us about the “interesting” flight through Turkey. Did it have to do with you flying transit through them and landing in Greece ? or did you encounter any of the daily interceptions by MIL to MIL aircraft taking place daily in Limnos area ?
Yes Swissport is organized in Limnos but the bill ends up again in 300 or so Euro.
Your story was once again what we mostly hear. Pilots really pissed/disappointed from the costs but eventually they put it aside because they end up having a wonderful time in this country, especially the islands.
We got back today. The total cost was 525EUR where airport charges were only 101EUR and the rest were SWISSPORT charges and surcharges! For those who are interested I attach below the photo of the bill. Please note that they added 20% night charges (Applicable for providing handling services between 22:00 and 6:00) because we arrived at their desk at 5:40 and departed at 6:15. In the retrospect we should have waited 20 minutes…;-)
This is my personal record and probably the most expensive handling in the whole of Greece. We really enjoyed our stay in Limnos, but the handling fees over there are prohibitively expensive. Indeed we might go there again, but it is definitely not going to be a frequent destination, which is a bit a shame because the island is lovely (not spoiled yet by mass tourism) and quite good kite surfing destination.
The “interesting” flight over Turkey was due to the fact that when we were handed over from Burgas approach to Ankara radar we were not able to establish radio contact. We could hear them barely (FL100), but not enough to communicate. We were given few frequencies, but without success. Finally we managed to get some contact on guard frequency (121.5) and then were given yet another frequency were we were asked for flight permit number. We did no apply for flight permit because according to their AIP it is not required for EACA flights as long as flight plan is filed at least 3 hours before departure with necessary remarks, which I did. However, the controller’s response was that they did not have it. For the next few minutes we were expecting to see an F16 intercepting us, but eventually they must have somehow found our flight plan because the next message was to report over GOLDO, which is the navigation point on the border with Greece and they must have found it in our flight plan because I did not mention it during the communication with them. So the lesson learnt is to avoid Turkey at all cost and if necessary apply for the overflight permit even if it is not required.
Handling plus night and weekend surcharges more than €400. Nice :(
Actually, airport fees are acceptable but handling is real disaster. I can imagine that handling was transporting from the plane to terminal building and nothing more.
