Silvaire wrote:
also because in my situation the certified plane is less expensive
How is that?
GA_Pete wrote:
My job can pay for this, but generally requires me to be back at work on Monday morning.
Only 2 of around 20 trips cancelled in 18 months.
I love flying but after 20yrs was completely done with VFR as the only option. For me it was get the IR or give up.
Pig wrote:
I did 47 long trips last year. 22 needed the IR.
I elected to do 8 more IFR so I could sit back and enjoy the ride without having to fight my way around a dozen airspace issues UK to the south of France
On a couple of trips the TAF was out of line so much the lack of an IR would have been a real issueI had to scratch six trips to limits ;
But I still think the main is this; Unless I have to ‘think’ about the weather, I never have to think about the weather. The IR, technically and practically is the best thing I ever did. Even in complete crap, it’s a relaxing and exciting trip. It opens up proper long range travel. Longest one so far Oxford to Hammerfest right at the top of Norway. Even though we managed 80 percent VFR, when we needed the IR we surely needed it.
That’s IFR motivation guys !
Thank you.
europaxs wrote:
How is that?
Buying an RV costs quite a lot?
There are plenty of certified aeroplanes which cost a lot less to buy. And under the FAA system, certified maintenance doesn’t have to be expensive and mainly about paperwork like it does in Europe.
Ibra wrote:
JetProp/PA46 for trip to Greece and J3/Cub for local flight or gorcery shopping from your backyard, I am sure someone from EuroGA has managed to get to that level of freedom, he can opine on the utility of having an IR
Guilty as charged.
The IR in Europe is absolutely indispensable if you want to do any serious distance travelling. We used to travel around Europe VFR in a Cirrus and I would spend days and hours worrying about weather and planning weird routes around restricted airspace. The IR has taken away all of the route planning stress (I just leave that to RocketRoute) and most of the weather stress (get on top and enjoy the sun).
Thinking about safety, the IR has dramatically improved the safety of my flying. No more scud running, no more flying on top of solid overcast all the way from Switzerland to the UK and just assuming there would be a hole in the clouds over the channel to sneak through (actually often the case). Also, the flying itself is much more relaxing IFR. Get up top, let the autopilot do the work, and enjoy the scenery and some lunch before planning the descent and approach.
For fun local flying, yes the J3 cub is great. I particularly enjoy thinking about the ‘grasshopper pilots’ in WWII as I swing the prop to start.
I know you would knock the door 
I would spend days and hours worrying about weather and planning weird routes around restricted airspace
You don’t “sleep well” in multi day trips while on “VFR holiday”
Dan wrote:
Opposed to staring at instruments and watching the AP flying me around in the clag on a predetermined route.
What about looking outside, admiring the wonders of the Planet? What about experience the 3rd dimension in flying? What about flying?Yes, an IR rated pilot has the freedom to do this as well, but few do… and unfortunately the tone of IR flyers on EuroGA can sometimes be elitist.
I can relate, In October I flew a TMG again, that was more then 10 years ago and it rejuvenated my joy to fly, one hour on barely 10L of fuel with a dazzling view outside…Basically I want to have it all, but my wallet wont agree…Going down and seeing 190Kts from FL120 and shooting an RNP approach has its thrills. But flying IFR comes with a cost not all aircraft owners/renters are financially able to bear..so yes that makes it even more elitist..:-) and there are a lot of needs to be addressed, which puts a certain level of stress to keep all balls safe in the air. Lets be happy we are able to do all of this and celebrate flying!
Buying an RV costs quite a lot? There are plenty of certified aeroplanes which cost a lot less to buy. And under the FAA system, certified maintenance doesn’t have to be expensive and mainly about paperwork like it does in Europe.
Correct on all counts. My plane cost $35K to buy initially in 2010, as an oddball in the US it might be worth $45K (?) today and the additional maintenance cost due to it being a certified type is a few hundred dollars a year, for the Annual Inspection. It’s in pretty good shape, particularly after 12 years of me fiddling with it incessantly. One day I’ll get it repainted but there’s a practical holdup in doing so and it’s fine for now.
Since I have no need for IFR either in regard to weather or airspace the panel is basic and staying that way. Everything works, spare 760 channel radio is already on hand if needed someday, no upgrades planned. It was already upgraded, in 1988 I did have to install a new transponder for ADS-B in 2019, and that put it in shape for my purposes. K.I.S.S. works for me.
Flying IFR comes with a cost not all aircraft owners/renters are financially able to bear.
I spend the extra money, time and attention on other things, while flying and doing weekend round trips in good weather. Traveling in Europe by motorcycle is good, at circa $5K a trip given a motorcycle based in Europe and waiting. Will be riding to the Tatra Mountains in a few months then back to the Dolomites. You see a lot doing that too.
Pig wrote:
Longest one so far Oxford to Hammerfest right at the top of Norway. Even though we managed 80 percent VFR, when we needed the IR we surely needed it.
Don’t know about Oxford, but this is a truth that requires modifications. Flying in Norway in a SEP IFR will not work except in the summer, and sometimes not even then due to weather. It also depends heavily of where you are going. Now, there are lots of fully IFR short fields (800m +) all along the coast, but there are even more private strips. What actually works better, all things considered and if you want to go to places other than Avinor airports, is a bush plane, or something that has the characteristics and maneuverability of a bush plane. An RV is fine, but also ULs. With an RV you can also fly IFR just fine, so it’s the best of two worlds in a way. A Glastar is also in there as a perfect choice.
For all year round flying (A to B type, where A and B can be anywhere), then a turbine, proper de-icing, and preferably pressurized cockpit is the only thing that will keep you alive and enable you to go as you want at the same time. Something like a Cessna Caravan perhaps. But, it still can be done flying in “bush style” with an appropriate plane, better than a Cirrus for instance. It’s more a matter of how exciting you want this hobby to be.
However, there is another aircraft that works almost no matter what, and that is a helicopter. Of IR and helicopter, helicopter would be my choice when getting around is what matters, hands down. Almost nothing will stop it, and if so should happen, you can simply land there and then. PPL-H costs about the same as IR, and is way more usable here in general, unless you can get your hands on a Caravan or similar, but then you are in another league altogether, and the size of it creates their own restrictions.
That’s how I see it. In the summer, almost anything works. Proper bush plane “characteristics” is better than a C-172, and IR is also better than no IR. But what’s best of a proper bush plane and IR? That depends on where you want to go. RV/Glastar (with IFR) must be the perfect “get around” airplane I would think. But, IFR is only needed if time also is of the essence, and may not solve your problem, because point B may be a small strip out in the bush between steep mountains. A helicopter is a much better bush plane than any bush plane in the summer, and it also works in the winter when nothing else will.
A list from worst to best, all year round, considering A and B is random, but must be reached, and staying longer at one place than absolutely necessary is no option:
A more relaxed “summer only” list would probably look something like this:
Not to be taken all too seriously of course
first, my apologies to @pilotrobbie. Not for what I wrote, but for hijacking what is his thread. I always thought about starting a IR rating pros/cons thread, but the opportunity to slightly rattle the cage was too good to miss 
On the other hand this has led to plenty of interesting, and sometimes valid comments.
An interesting observation, call me wrong, is that the proportion of UK pilots flying on an IR seems bigger than on the continent. Also quite a few admit doing it to simplify navigation, which I read to prevent airspace infringements. This reason, though I’m unfortunately very aware of the shoot first ask questions later CAA style, is peculiar and denotes the complexity of the airspace in the UK, the more so in the greater London.
At the risk of repeating myself, I would advise on an IR if you need or really want to go places. Or if you enjoy playing airliner.
If none of the above applies, stay put on VFR, and use the €€’€€€ you saved into that tank and go enjoy yourself and fly
PS
Took the Panther for a lake roundtrip today, and that was sooo much fun. 20’ drive to field, quick check on the weather, fill her up and off I go. No autorouter or the like, no slot, no flight plan, no radio talk, no clearance, no SID, no airway, no STAR.
Easy-peasy VFR
enjoy playing airliner.
I don’t think any of us does that, because you need at least a Jetprop to even begin to do that.
The rest of us end up battling high altitude convective wx, ice, etc.
